The Conservative Bible

[Trieste]

I may be on staffly hiatus, but pretend I have my normal 'goddess' tag next to my name when I say this, because I'd rather not have to go get someone else to post it for me:

Chill out, watch your ad homs, take a deep breath and post reasonably. Reread logical fallacies. Contemplate your navel. Organize your record collection. Whatever you need to do to remain civil, go do it please. (Hint: Calling others' beliefs 'stupid' is not civil.)

Thank you.

[RubySlippers]

Evangelical Christians have certain basic teachings they tend to support as a group. The Bible if the infallible and inerrant word of God so the Bible is exactly as its written is the exact word of God and the entire book is exactly and truthfully as written. So that pretty much negates any rational arguement that it may have flaws they simply argue its perfect and God will explain any mysteries in it. Another thing is that Christianity it the only way to heaven and since the Bible is the perfect word of God if your homosexual or whatever your going right to the burning place if you actually act on it so they have to try and save you. And naturally that they must covert you Jesus commanded it after all so how is sort of flexible from nice to street preaching you may be offended by.

On this topic I think writing a Bible and making interpretations is part of the faith so they are not exactly doing anything wrong.

[Cythieus]

Evangelical Christians have certain basic teachings they tend to support as a group. The Bible if the infallible and inerrant word of God so the Bible is exactly as its written is the exact word of God and the entire book is exactly and truthfully as written. So that pretty much negates any rational arguement that it may have flaws they simply argue its perfect and God will explain any mysteries in it. Another thing is that Christianity it the only way to heaven and since the Bible is the perfect word of God if your homosexual or whatever your going right to the burning place if you actually act on it so they have to try and save you. And naturally that they must covert you Jesus commanded it after all so how is sort of flexible from nice to street preaching you may be offended by.

On this topic I think writing a Bible and making interpretations is part of the faith so they are not exactly doing anything wrong.

The problem is the Bible is about faith, not politics and they are clearly rewriting it for Political ends. In fact, in some cases they show blatant disregard for what is meant and are just removing references to things that contradict the political ideology they have selected (such as removing Socialism).

[Morven]

I do personally have a big suspicion that trolls have infiltrated the conservative bible project for the purpose of making its ludicrousness even more obvious.

[Cythieus]

I do personally have a big suspicion that trolls have infiltrated the conservative bible project for the purpose of making its ludicrousness even more obvious.

The idea in and of itself is pretty ludicrous. You can pretty much, thanks to this, propose that we remove anything we don't like from a holy book. Let's say I love me some adultery. But not just the Biblical definition where its fornication and the like, I just love cheating on people I am dating. Can I then take the Bible and edit all of the parts out that hint at that being wrong?

[Morven]

The idea in and of itself is pretty ludicrous. You can pretty much, thanks to this, propose that we remove anything we don't like from a holy book. Let's say I love me some adultery. But not just the Biblical definition where its fornication and the like, I just love cheating on people I am dating. Can I then take the Bible and edit all of the parts out that hint at that being wrong?

Well, assuming I was a conservative fundamentalist Christian, I could justify going back to the sources and seeing if the political biases of translators had given modern Bible translations that unjustifiedly tended towards their preferences, and correct them.

The other, though — it doesn't make any sense, from such a point of view.  And if you're not, why do you care?

Which is why I think it's a troll.  A good one, if so.

[Cythieus]

Well, assuming I was a conservative fundamentalist Christian, I could justify going back to the sources and seeing if the political biases of translators had given modern Bible translations that unjustifiedly tended towards their preferences, and correct them.

The other, though — it doesn't make any sense, from such a point of view.  And if you're not, why do you care?

Which is why I think it's a troll.  A good one, if so.

Many times people don't make sense, calling someone a Liberal and a Nazi and a Muslim and a Fundamentalist Christian all at the same time doesn't make sense either, but its happened to Obama and people still find a way to justify it. This isn't about making sense, its about them trying to demonize liberals. And I care because I'm a conservative leaning moderate and I'm sick and tired of seeing these people hijack parts of my values, infuse them with their political, corporate and social standards that are not there and then slap a religious sticker on it to force feed it to the masses using fear, racism and cultural/religious superiority, and hatred all to force agendas that are no more part of the actual value system than meat is of apple pie.

[Morven]

Malice, rather than incompetence?

[Cythieus]

Malice, rather than incompetence?

These people literally hate liberalism. I have seen Christian morning shows call liberalism direct road to Hell. And its not even because of things like gays and other things you would think. They literally associate liberals with socialists and somehow sharing with the group means you're totally evil.

[Morven]

That's really strange.  What's the reasoning, if you know it?

[Cythieus]

That's really strange.  What's the reasoning, if you know it?

I haven't heard one, there's some Socialism in the Bible, not by name but its the same principal.

[The Overlord]

They literally associate liberals with socialists and somehow sharing with the group means you're totally evil.

I think this is making a strong statement on the level of avarice of the would-be accusers here.


…and I seem to recall something about avarice in the seven deadly sins.




Hypocrites.

[Cythieus]

Seven Deadly sins seem more overlooked in Protestant Religions. They get hammered into the Catholics and Orthodox from what I hear though.

[Morven]

An impression I've received, from the fundamentalists around here at least, is that their wealth is a reflection of the fact that they are blessed by God; a reward for being believers. 

If one believes that earthly riches are a reward for goodness and Godliness, I can see how one might view socialism as being a forcible redistribution of God's bounty from the Godly to the unbelievers and sinners who God punishes by making them poor.

[Jude]

An impression I've received, from the fundamentalists around here at least, is that their wealth is a reflection of the fact that they are blessed by God; a reward for being believers. 

If one believes that earthly riches are a reward for goodness and Godliness, I can see how one might view socialism as being a forcible redistribution of God's bounty from the Godly to the unbelievers and sinners who God punishes by making them poor.

You're describing the protestant work ethic that's the centerpiece of Calvinism.  I wasn't aware people still believed that; I thought it was as archaic as the concept of predestination and the denial of free-will.

[Morven]

You're describing the protestant work ethic that's the centerpiece of Calvinism.  I wasn't aware people still believed that; I thought it was as archaic as the concept of predestination and the denial of free-will.

This is my reading of the ones I've known; whether it's official doctrine or not of any church in the area, I have no idea.  It does follow on from the notion that God provides to the faithful, though.

[Cythieus]

People still believe that. Pastor John Hagee in San Antonio, Texas said that and that the people who died in Katrina did so because of their sinning. He also said some stuff about all music that was not Christian music coming from the Devil because the Devil was a muse.

[Morven]

People still believe that. Pastor John Hagee in San Antonio, Texas said that and that the people who died in Katrina did so because of their sinning. He also said some stuff about all music that was not Christian music coming from the Devil because the Devil was a muse.

Do Christians elsewhere in the world behave like this?  I'm pretty sure they don't in the UK, and I haven't heard of it in Europe.  There are Calvinists in Europe, but they don't behave as smugly, or as vocally sure about God's judgment.  Or not that I've seen.

[Cythieus]

Well because Conservationism isn't intertwined with Christianity so much there. I have a good British friend and a good Romanian one and both of them are Christians and they're totally sensible and seem to think we're odd over here for how we behave with religion AND politics.

[HairyHeretic]

An impression I've received, from the fundamentalists around here at least, is that their wealth is a reflection of the fact that they are blessed by God; a reward for being believers. 

Prosperity doctrine or prosperity gospel, something like that ... it seems to be an American phenomenon. Some of the Christians I've discussed it with elsewhere really don't like the idea of it.

[Cythieus]

Prosperity doctrine or prosperity gospel, something like that ... it seems to be an American phenomenon. Some of the Christians I've discussed it with elsewhere really don't like the idea of it.

It's contrary to some of the teachings in the Bible. Book of Job?

[HairyHeretic]

I don't recall, I'm afraid.

[Cythieus]

I don't recall, I'm afraid.

Basically in Job all of Job's possessions and things are taken away to prove that he will still love God despite losing all of his possessions. Then there is the part in the New Testament where Christ says it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Lilias]

Seven Deadly sins seem more overlooked in Protestant Religions. They get hammered into the Catholics and Orthodox from what I hear though.

Actually, no. In Orthodox theology there's no distinction between venial and mortal sin.

The prosperity angle is particular to sects with roots to 17th-century Puritanism, together with emphasis on the OT. They literally see their congregation as God's chosen people. Call them Judaisers and watch them blow their tops (I have, on several occasions).

[Cythieus]

Actually, no. In Orthodox theology there's no distinction between venial and mortal sin.

The prosperity angle is particular to sects with roots to 17th-century Puritanism, together with emphasis on the OT. They literally see their congregation as God's chosen people. Call them Judaisers and watch them blow their tops (I have, on several occasions).

The ones in America seem to, calling them Capital Sins: http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8049