The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[Rustic]

Just saw Infinity War, and loved it. I am always astounded by how Marvel just knows how to make things unpredictable. It's very fresh and enjoyable.

Spoilers (for those who haven't seen it yet) below

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

They managed to round out Thanos as character more than I thought they were going to, even if his motivations\logic don't make sense So you want to kill half the universe because everything is FINITE but you are going to do it by using INFINITY stones. Cookie for anyone who spots the obvious contradiction.

Cause finite and infinite are opposites of each other? Now where's my cookie? :D

You know, come to think of it, if he gets the gauntlet, can't he just do... well... anything? So if he's trying to save the universe by killing half it's population because of a limited amount of resources, why doesn't he just make infinite resources instead? Or is that the contradiction you're talking about? If so, cookie please!

Also if he loved Gammora, and wants her alive (I assume since he cried over her), why doesn't he use the time stone to bring her back?

Also... why half the population? If he kills half of it, they'll just repopulate anyways, no? Also with the distribution of wealth, there will always be poor, no matter the population. Augh my brain hurts.

But it's a superhero movie where heroes have every superpower imaginable, even tech that forms around your body with nanotech and creates jet fuel and bombs along with the suit... not everything needs to make sense.

But yeah, I was happy they delved into who he was, and made him a bit more humanized... even if he wasn't human. I like when they do that. He wasn't just a throwaway villain who wants to control/destroy the universe because... reasons.

Also is Thor still alive? I can't remember. So many people died it's hard to keep track of, lol.

With everyone dead it feels kind of moot. You know they'll have to bring some if not all back as they're money makers, like Black Panther, Spiderman and the Guardians. If only a few died, those who've run their course (like captain america) it would have been a bit more heartbreaking, because then it would be uncertain.

[mia h]

Spoilers (for those who haven't seen it yet) below

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Cause finite and infinite are opposites of each other? Now where's my cookie? :D

You know, come to think of it, if he gets the gauntlet, can't he just do... well... anything? So if he's trying to save the universe by killing half it's population because of a limited amount of resources, why doesn't he just make infinite resources instead? Or is that the contradiction you're talking about? If so, cookie please!

Close it's even simpler than that, Thanos' actions are based on the premise that resources are finite but the infinity stones suggest the universe is infinite and so resources must also be infinite. It doesn't break the plot but it would have funny if Tony had turned round to Thanos and said "You know you're working from a faulty premise, right?" Thanos agrees they all sit down and have a beer.

So


The deaths do ring a little hollow given the films that have been at least semi-announced; Dr Strange 2, Guardians vol 3, Spiderman Homecoming 2, Black Panther 2

[Iniquitous]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Close it's even simpler than that, Thanos' actions are based on the premise that resources are finite but the infinity stones suggest the universe is infinite and so resources must also be infinite. It doesn't break the plot but it would have funny if Tony had turned round to Thanos and said "You know you're working from a faulty premise, right?" Thanos agrees they all sit down and have a beer.

So


The deaths do ring a little hollow given the films that have been at least semi-announced; Dr Strange 2, Guardians vol 3, Spiderman Homecoming 2, Black Panther 2

Even more spoilers?!

Ok, so. First let me say 'HOLY SHIT THAT GOT DARK!' As had been noted on facebook Thursday night, never has there been moviegoers so somber after a Marvel movie. Kiurial and I just sat there staring at the screen going "wtf" for a good couple of minutes after it was all over.

Now, with all that said! There are few things to take into consideration.  Let's start from the top shall we?
1. Tony's little conversation with Pepper at the beginning.  I do not think this is just a scene of us catching up with them whilst they are having some odd, random 'couple-y' conversation.  This does not feel like throw away dialog that just fills the dead air before Strange shows up.  Do I know what the hell MCU is planning with this snippet of a conversation? No, but I have some theories about Tony and the Reality stone - and more about the reality stone below!

2. Every character that survived is coming to the end of their contracts.  My speculation is that they will not survive the Avengers 4 movie (if not all of them dying, then a good chunk of them).

3. Demonbane is the one who brought this up to me yesterday, and it certainly is possible.  The reason Strange gave the Time stone to Thanos to save Tony is because he seen that Tony inadvertently creates another Infinity Stone with his Arc reactor.  It's possible, but I am not sure how much I will put into this.  Mainly because of the credits scene and what I think will come from that.

4. Yes! Thor is still alive! So is Black Widow, Iron Man, Nebula, Hulk, Rhoady, Ant Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Rocket.  What about Valkyrie? She was on the refugee vessel with Thor and Hulk.  We didn't see her body in the causalities (nor did we see Korg and Meek). Speculation is they are still alive, but the hows of it have not been explained.

Now for the mind bending possibility.

5. The only ones truly dead are Gamorra, Loki, and Heimdall. Now, before you go 'But Ini! We seen the turn to dust/ash!' let me explain! Loki, Gamorra, and Heimdall are the only ones that we truly see die. (not counting Vision in this at the moment). The rest simply went 'poof'. Poof does not mean dead when you suddenly turn into dust/ash and blow away. Why?  Cause the Mad Titan has the Reality stone! Nothing says he didn't send then to an alternate reality!  That whole comment from Thanos to Tony "I hope they remember you".  At first I thought that comment was a sure sign Tony was gonna bite it in this movie, but then at the end (after that heartbreaking scene with Peter and Peter's 'I dont want to go!') it made sense for those two comments to be about Tony's companions remembering him wherever they go (and Peter not wanting to go).   Thus! The only ones we know for a fact are dead is Loki (WHY!!?), Heimdall, and Gamorra - we have seen their deaths.

6. The credits scene.  Yes, Fury sent the S.O.S to Captain Marvel.  Rumor is she is going to be the most powerful in the MCU,  That would mean that it will be Captain Marvel and Thor standing toe to toe with Thanos in the next Avengers movie - that only those two are strong enough to stand toe to toe with him.

[TheGlyphstone]

Moar Spoilers

As far as Thanos's plan...I think we're all barking up the wrong tree a bit by assuming the name "Infinity Stones' is literal rather than hyperbolic, in the same way a mad scientist builds an Apocalypse Cannon instead of a Really Big Laser. The Time Stone can only rewind time a minute or two at most, the Reality Stone can only alter reality within its user's line of sight. There's limits on how their power can be utilized - if not inherent to the stones themselves, maybe in that the limiting focus is the wielder. Which makes more sense for items made by godsCelestials -the stones are infinite, but Thanos isn't. We only ever see him using one stone at a time, it's clearly something he has to focus on instead of just doing reflexively. He needs the Gauntlet to use them as a set, and the one time he does, we see him immediately afterward and his superweapon looks like someone ran it over with a cement mixer. It's a blink-and-miss-it detail, but the Infinity Gauntlet is damaged or possibly destroyed at the end of Infinity War, so despite its name, it doesn't seem to truly grant infinite power.

Now, for Thanos himself - even if he did have infinite power, it's very unlikely he would use it properly. Remember that this is not a cold, logical AI making decisions. This is an angry, frustrated, still somewhat traumatized person who watched his civilization and his species die from overpopulation and resource depletion - and he could have saved them if they had only listened to him. Now he's determined to 'save' the rest of the galaxy whether it wants to be saved or not. Is the plan inherently flawed in that population will eventually replenish to a level that needs culling again? Of course it is, in addition to being horrific genocide, but if Thanos's plan was perfect he would be the hero instead of the villain. It's likely he hasn't even considered the need to repeat the killing, and if someone did bring it up his most likely response is 'then I'll do it again, and again'. Because when you boil it down, his noble motivations are really nothing of the sort, what he's really after is simply to be proven right all those years ago.

[mia h]

Paul Blackthorn is leaving Arrow at the end of this season, so 2 original cast members remain.
And are starting to promote their new digital platform, https://www.dccomics.com/dcuniverse Didn't know about the Swamp Thing and Harley shows.

[Mathim]

Many, many more spoilers about IW.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Tony's talking about having a baby with Pepper was off-putting. I feel like they missed that opportunity with Ultron since Tony could have gotten the experience with that kind of thing by having fostered a fledgling AI and failed at being a parent by turning it into Ultron but instead scrambling to fit a single movie together and forcing Ultron to both become a cynical bastard and Tony-hating sociopath immediately, so them rubbing salt in that wound was kind of...well, I mean, he can't even be a good partner for Pepper, so being a good parent, especially when he's such an ass with Peter Parker? Just ew. Eeeeewww.

Would have liked an explanation for how Vision was able to make himself look more human but then none of his powers really make sense so whatevs. Just not sure why getting stabbed like that negated all of his major powers, or how him being made of Vibranium (albeit with organic matter mixed in) enabled him to get wounded so easily. Or how Wanda's powers that supposedly came from the Mind Stone allowed for her to destroy it and then somehow also still possess them after. But I knew Thanos was just going to reverse time and have it be undone the second Doctor Strange handed him the Time Stone. Maybe, just maybe, Strange did it because it was the one in 14 million scenarios where they win.

So Tony got nanotech without ever contacting the Wakandans? Convenient. But awesome. Was not expecting full on Iron Spider with Doc Ock style arms but they got some serious screen time. Very nice. Loved that Mexican Standoff situation between Tony's group and Quill's group where they kept dick-measuring until Quill revealed rather humorously that he was undoubtedly from Earth. Too bad he never got to set foot back there after so long. Their fight with Thanos with just the six of them there on Titan was pretty stupid but the worst part was me screaming at the screen, "Cut off his arm, idiots! Or his head! Tony, you have lasers that can cut through metal like butter, even if it doesn't actually cut off the arm it'll hurt him and loosen his grip, so do it! Or just melt the glove like you tried to do when you were going at it with him one-on-one!" But nothing beats Peter Parker vs. Mantis. "Don't put your eggs in me!" LOL. Loved that Aliens reference where they blew Ebony Maw out into space without having to get their hands dirty at all, considering he was probably the most formidable of all four of the Black Order.

Red Skull showing up and finally revealing his fate at the end of The First Avenger was bittersweet. Was that Hugo Weaving under there? I wouldn't care either way but I know he was not interested in returning to the role and I don't blame him. But Thanos sacrificing Gamora like that was a real cop-out. If he killed her and then didn't get the Soul Stone because, in the end, he didn't understand what love was, because he damn well doesn't, he could have been furious and in despair, and knowing that he would need to trick someone else into doing it so he could then take the stone from them. But no, they had to give him all six within the same movie which I wasn't remotely counting on. So rushed, the movie didn't even feel as long as it was. Then him comparing his pain to Wanda's, what a dick move.

Thor and Rocket, what a pair. Where's their road movie? Just bumming around the galaxy, let's see that spin-off. Loved the new weapon, an axe instead of a hammer, Stormbreaker. Would have liked to see a spare Mjolnir lying around unused and waiting for a new master so we could anticipate Beta Ray Bill at some point in the future. Ah well. But that end-credits scene was worth it, with Fury, a la Aunt May, getting cut off before getting the word 'fuck' out, and then revealing that Captain Marvel is getting summoned back to Earth, so stoked to see that coming up.

Quill calling Thanos' chin a ballsack, though, I love how they're not so kiddy anymore. And Banner defeating the big guy without having to turn into the Hulk, awesome. And both he and Black Widow survived...maybe they can flesh out their relationship like Age of Ultron failed to do. Oh, and Drax being his usual dipshit comic relief self, can't help but love the idiot.

Much as it had going for it, it went the same route as Age of Ultron, trying to do too much even in the amount of time it had. We didn't get to see the attack on Xandar, the attack on the Asgardian ship, learn the name of all but one of the Black Order (or that they were called the Black Order) and what drew them to serving him, or see any of the Infinity Stones having a will of their own and attempting to resist him. They could definitely have made 3 full movies out of just that stuff, easily. Yet another wasted opportunity.

About Thanos' solution despite having all the stones, is it a fact that he can somehow create utopian environments for people to live in, without needing to thin their numbers artificially? I'm not sure if any of the stones has the ability to create food out of thin air (the Reality Stone seems purely temporary in its effects and have a limited range), or make infertile worlds able to support life? Maybe he's resigned himself to the fact that, while he possesses ultimate power, none of them really have the ability to overcome the limits required by biological organisms.

All that said, I would be very upset if that huge Asgardian ship didn't have at least some escape pods and that we'll be seeing Valkyrie, Korg and Miek coming back after having either been forced into them by concerned people wanting to make sure their heroes survived, or got caught up in the escape while escorting others into the escape pods since I doubt they'd have just left after all they'd been through already. Also, why did Thanos kill all of them and blow up the ship? Where's all that 'balance' crap he was talking about?

[CaptainNexus616]

New Luke Cage trailer just dropped.

https://youtu.be/sB1in0KkoG4

[Mathim]

New Luke Cage trailer just dropped.

https://youtu.be/sB1in0KkoG4

Wait, did Jessica Jones season 2 already come out? I didn't think they'd have major trailers out for more than one pending thing at a time.

Any idea who that guy that walks up to him and lays him out is? Also, Misty's arm is looking cool.

[CaptainNexus616]

Yeah, Jessica Jones Season 2 has been out for awhile now.

As for the guy who jumped Luke. I think that's supposed to be the villain Bushmaster. Just took a quick look at some stuff and it's a character who had a run in with Luke, Misty, and Iron Fist in the comics.

[wander]

Wander's big-ass post on Infinity War theories, confirmations from the crew on aspects and marked for obvious SPOILERS

1. I was thinking on this and it may be jossed, though with the original six Avengers left alive, it reminded me that there are six Infinity Stones and whilst there are other survivors outside the original six, some contracts are ending and may not get renewed (looking at RDJ and Chris Evans), basically I'm thinking when we reach Cosmic Marvel (aka Phase 4), there's gonna be Infinity Watch. Possibly led by Captain Marvel as she seems to be taking Adam Warlock's place going forward in the Infinity Gauntlet arc from the comics. Remember Infinity Gauntlet started with 'The Snap' and dealt with how the survivors tried to stop Thanos post-snap.

2. Nebula surviving seems to be baiting her arc from Infinity Gauntlet. Me and a friend feels it's too obvious and wasn't set up right though, so probably won't happen that way.

3. The Russo's confirmed Valkyrie, Korg and Miek were on the half of the Asgard escape-ship drifting off from the main hulk seen at the start. Thanos only slew half the Asgardian survivors, as is his way now.

4. About Tony and the whole 'dreams saving the future discussion; the BARF tech he used in Civil War to VR see his parents is confirmed to be a part of Avengers 4, the Russos mentioned it was literally put in Civil War so it wouldn't be an asspull come the next film. We also have seen set-pics of present RDJ and Ant-Man interacting with the Battle of New York, including the Avengers 1 versions of Iron Man and Captain America. Take that how you will.

5. Gamora is confirmed to be alive in the Soul World inside the Soul Stone, seen when Thanos woke up there and interacted with mini-Gamora there right after he did the snap. Possibly the others slain in the snap may be there too. Loki and Heimdall seem full dead though. Hiddleston is talking in interviews like he's done with the Marvel films and Idris Elba has been said to not be really happy that Heimdall never really did much when he was in the films. Idris is a big actor, so I can get why he may think it's a waste of his talents to have a bit-role like that.

Some other random-titbits;

Vision has always had the power to shift his appearance; in his first appearance he literally grows his cape from thin-air. I guess until him and Wanda hit it off he never really had a reason to do so. I also kinda feel the romance between them was rushed, in Civil War we only really see them together in the Avengers Tower when he's doing the best 'abusive spouse who won't let his partner go out ever' schtick. Felt kinda squick for him to be like that in Civil War, though I guess two years had passed since then and they've clearly been having their trysts since the fallout from that film.

On Thanos getting his arm cut off when they were fighting for the Gauntlet off him; Tony laid the ever holy-smack down with everything he had on him on Thanos earlier and only slightly cut his cheek... I really don't think his gear could cut through enough of the Titan's arm in time before Mantis' hold on him let up.

Sadly it wasn't Hugo under the make-up. Different actor, though one who did a really bloody decent impression of Hugo's voice.

One Last Final;

James Gunn confirmed the last words Teen-Groot said to Rocket before the former vaped; "Dad". Learning that hit me in the feels, he sees Rocket as his dad... Plus Rocket understands Groot and was left with that. Dayum.

[Mathim]

Wander's big-ass post on Infinity War theories, confirmations from the crew on aspects and marked for obvious SPOILERS

1. I was

On Thanos getting his arm cut off when they were fighting for the Gauntlet off him; Tony laid the ever holy-smack down with everything he had on him on Thanos earlier and only slightly cut his cheek... I really don't think his gear could cut through enough of the Titan's arm in time before Mantis' hold on him let up.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

They didn't need to cut it all the way off, even just digging into it like a chainsaw into a tree trunk would have hurt like hell and reduced the strength he could put into it drastically, plus once you get into the meat, it gets easier to keep going. You're comparing a one-on-one fight where Tony had to worry about both offense AND defense to a situation where he could have let Thanos' arm have it with both barrels on full blast in a concentrated area where they would have maximum effect. I get they were too focused on getting the gauntlet off him to think of it, and to be fair, they did get it off him only for him to grab it back at the last moment, but an outsider's perspective just screamed 'obvious' as to how they should have handled it once they got into that position. Tell me that wasn't one of Strange's 14 million scenarios?

[wander]

in response to Mathim

I totally believe that Steve Strange saw through his Golden One Path to Beat Thanos(tm) that he needed to let Thanos have the Time Stone and potentially this was so that Tony survived (though it could have been so Thanos didn't kill them all there pre-Soul Stone). People give a lot of crap for Quill losing his shit on Thanos and screwing up their efforts, though Strange could have stopped Quill doing that. Even a depowered Thanos could likely have killed them all there in a rage to get the Gauntlet back, leaving their efforts for naught. I concede to your point though.

[TheGlyphstone]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

They didn't need to cut it all the way off, even just digging into it like a chainsaw into a tree trunk would have hurt like hell and reduced the strength he could put into it drastically, plus once you get into the meat, it gets easier to keep going. You're comparing a one-on-one fight where Tony had to worry about both offense AND defense to a situation where he could have let Thanos' arm have it with both barrels on full blast in a concentrated area where they would have maximum effect. I get they were too focused on getting the gauntlet off him to think of it, and to be fair, they did get it off him only for him to grab it back at the last moment, but an outsider's perspective just screamed 'obvious' as to how they should have handled it once they got into that position. Tell me that wasn't one of Strange's 14 million scenarios?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

It probably was, but for some undefined reason, the events further down that chain must have resulted in defeat. I suspect Strange's plan, whatever it is, takes the super-long view. It's not just about defeating Thanos now, but defeating him forever, ensuring he won't just return 500 years later with the same plan, more stuff/bigger armies, and no heroes to stop him this time. Or something.

[CaptainNexus616]

^

After seeing the movie myself, I agree with this.

[Mathim]

I agree, ultimately, I think that's exactly why

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Strange gave up the stone to spare Tony because he specifically said he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice both Tony and Peter to protect it, and yet he just goes back on that for no apparent reason, so it definitely stands to reason he's seen something that convinced him that doing so was, in the end, the best way to protect the stone or at least make their side victorious after all's said and done no matter how bad it looks right now.

[wander]

Another topic, still Infinity War spoilage

Surprised noone's talking about how easily Wanda make the Mind Stone blow up. That thing survived the birth of the Universe and one red-witch girl made it pop. Sure Thanos uses the Time Stone and brings it back, though that bit struck me as very... wtf that she could do that.

[TheGlyphstone]

Another topic, still Infinity War spoilage

Surprised noone's talking about how easily Wanda make the Mind Stone blow up. That thing survived the birth of the Universe and one red-witch girl made it pop. Sure Thanos uses the Time Stone and brings it back, though that bit struck me as very... wtf that she could do that.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Wanda is crazy scary powerful, which is why they've had to bend the plot into a pretzel for the last few movies to keep her sidelined. And her film version is still weaker than her comics version, IIRC.

[wander]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Oh for sure her more modern take is, in the older comics they seem to have taken her current movie powerset from (hex magic) she wasn't that powerful though. I know she likely is gonna grow in power like in the comics to be a reality warper in her own right, though I suppose what shook me was it was the first 'big' show of power she did in the movies. Though yeah, comics Wanda I'd totally see able to not just blow up the Mind Stone but wipe it from reality altogether.

[CaptainNexus616]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

They mention that Wanda's powers somehow came from the Mind Stone as a result of the experiments she underwent along with Quicksilver. They basically used that connection to destroy it. Or at least that is how they tried to explain it in the short time frame they had.

[Mathim]

Another topic, still Infinity War spoilage

Surprised noone's talking about how easily Wanda make the Mind Stone blow up. That thing survived the birth of the Universe and one red-witch girl made it pop. Sure Thanos uses the Time Stone and brings it back, though that bit struck me as very... wtf that she could do that.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Actually I did, in my first Infinity War related spoiler post. I pointed out how I thought it was bizarre that the thing that empowered her could also be destroyed by her, yet somehow also let her remain empowered despite the source of it then being gone. But since it amounted to nothing because Thanos reversed time, it seemed an empty gesture, especially with her being one of the victims to go 'poof' after the snap.

[mia h]

Leaving the Avengers behind for a minute. Last night's Supergirl ended on an interesting note, Nesta Cooper turned up in the last 30 seconds as a character called Tanya who grabbed a book full of Kryptonian info and ran .
Now Nesta is an actress who's had a lot of small parts but has played one of the main characters in Travelers for the last 3 years.

And as for Tanya well there is a Tanya Spears that goes by the name of Power Girl

[Deamonbane]

Just watched an advanced screening of Deadpool 2. Definitely worth the watch. Two mid-credits scenes, worth it as well.

[mia h]

Looks like the Arrowverse is going to be taking a trip to the City of Gotham as they're introducing Batwoman next season.

[CaptainNexus616]

Looks like the Arrowverse is going to be taking a trip to the City of Gotham as they're introducing Batwoman next season.

This sounds really interesting, especially if Batwoman is the one showing up and not Batman. Must be out of town or some other convenient reason, if he doesn't appear at all. (Which I wouldn't think they'd do.) However Batwoman showing up shows promise, she doesn't get enough love.

On another note allow me to pose a question for the viewers of this thread after finding this image on Fandom.

You are putting together your superhero team...

[TheGlyphstone]

Why pick one? Take all three, they can be the Peter Patrol.