Mass Effect 3 Release!!!

Started by SilentGemini, March 06, 2012, 05:52:05 PM

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SilentGemini

Today's the day. I've got it in my hand. The only unfortunate thing is I'm playing through one and two to get my affairs in order before I pop three in. But I figure there have got to be other E members as excited as I am for the release date today. So I'm posting this thread so we can all jump for joy and sing the praises of ME3 together.

Also I'd like to hear about your version of Commander Shepard. After all, he/she is the players persona in the Mass Effect Universe. I can only imagine the different combinations and imagination each E member put into their version, and I'd like to see it posted.

My version goes by the name Terran Shepard. A big advocate for Humanity in the political maelstrom of Citadel politics, he was born to an Earth slum and raised up to be one of the greatest heroes after his actions during the Skyllian Blitz. The first human Spectre, he proved himself time and time again throughout his missions, proving that humans have the guts and the skills to stand as equals along side the other races. Working with aliens hasn't changed who he is though. Terran was a human before he became a spectre, and he works hard to make sure humans get a fair shake and are recognized for their character as well as their deeds, helping anyone whose mission it is to build a better future for Earth's children. This attitude has forced him to walk a fine line; his moral compass constantly wavering between standing as a force for all galactic civilization, and the baddest human ever to grace the stars and give the council the finger.

Callie Del Noire

Kyrie-Anne Shepard. Very red haired, like Fem-Shepard. Has walked the Renegade/Paragon road a while. Upheld the need for unity in the coming threat. Won't say too much since you're still playing. Your actions from the 1st game do get mentioned and have effects all the way through. A companion's death (or even his murder) leaves things very different later on.

SilentGemini

I've already beaten the first two. I'm pretty sure I know what your hinting at so I won't speak it aloud in case anyone else reading has yet to play.

Incidentally, I meant for this playthrough to be done on Insanity setting, and got halfway through the game before I realized it was just on Hardcore. I had to take a walk before I broke something. I think it might have switched back accidentally or something when I adjusted some of the graphics options.

Laughing Hyena

Well since my 360 broke down for good, I have been now been playing it on the PS3 which I am still kind of miffed about since Mass Effect 1 never came out for it. But I did play the first and remembered what I had done mostly on it.

My Shepard was called Lawrence Shepard and walked the path of the Paragon through and through showing mercy when he felt it was applied and well placed vengeance when it was a last resort. He never let fear compromise his integrity.

Chris Brady

If I had the money, I'd be playing with Man-Shep.  But I don't.

And I probably won't have the money for the next six months either.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

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Funguy81

#5
Commander John Shephard. The first human spectre after the betrayel of Saren, a Turian spectre. An honorable man who primary goal throughout his first mission is to stop saren, and as revenge for the actions he caused in eden prime. Its in this mission he first encountered the reapers, and learned the true history of the galaxy. Though his mission cost the life of a dear friend. He has become the hero of the Citidel when he led a ground team to fight their way to the Citidal main controls to prevent Saren and the reaper ship from calling forth the others, and called in the Human fleet to face the reaper ship and saren's geth army to protect the council fleet despite the risk. his actions given a place in the council for the human race.

Two years after his death from a surprise attack in space, a revived John shephard found himself enhanced thanks to Cerberus technology. After being informed of the attacks to human colonies, he gathered a new team with the backing of the Illusive Man. Though he's always kept distance between himself and his Mysterious benefactor. (which i have to say was one of martin sheen's best roles.)
Once he gathered his crew and upgraded the ship he made the suicidal jump into the omega relay. There he fought the last battle against the Reaper commander and their newest creation. The mission came out to be a success though at the cost of the life of one of his crew members. It was here that he severed ties from Cerberus when he was informed of the illusive's man true intention.



Inkidu

I'm playing through as my first character ever. He's been through both games. Romanced Liara in the first, then she got all distant so he fixed Jack, and still luffers his favorite psychotic biotic. Started out as an infiltrator, but moved to the stellar (and it's even more bad-ass in 3) sentinel class. Not much to say in the way of choices he's a paragon through and through.

One thing I've noticed about 3 is there's kind of a lack of the middle options. I don't know if they're forcing you to take a side for the finale, or they're sacrificing it to get more dialogue options overall, but I think it might be the former.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

CmdrRenegade

Commander Matthew Shepard's saga (the inspiration for the name, CmdrRenegade) will be begin it's 3rd and final iteration soon.  I refuse to have anything but a 360 Collector's Edition and am fighting to get one.
"Every creative act is open war against The Way It Is."-Tycho Brahe of Penny Arcade

I'm CmdrRenegade and these are my Ons and Offs and Apologies and Abcenses on Elliquiy.


SilentGemini

Lot of Paragon's round here!

They evaluated my choices as the Paragon path in the beginning assessment during Mass Effect 2, but a lot of people got dead along the way. Terran romanced the human ladies (First Ashley, then Miranda).

I did NOT destroy the base and did hand it over to the Illusive Man. Paragon ending in 1, Renegade ending in 2. God only knows how it will turn out.

Callie Del Noire

I couldn't do it.. TIM (the illusive man) struck me as someone with more than 'we're defending mankind without bureaucrats slowing us down'.

SinXAzgard21

Where I live and within 50 miles there are no more copies of the game... All sold out.... Glad I pre-ordered.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

SilentGemini

I didn't trust him either, but I couldn't let it go to waste. I figured that even if he did betray me, I could always shoot the bastard and reclaim it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: SilentGemini on March 08, 2012, 06:01:13 AM
I didn't trust him either, but I couldn't let it go to waste. I figured that even if he did betray me, I could always shoot the bastard and reclaim it.

Nah, I saw too many cases of it coming back to bite us in the ass. The Reapers are too far ahead of us to trust that they couldn't recover the tech. Better safe than sorry.

One thing I noticed last night is your actions show up in little ways. Like the Memorial wall on the Normandy. I've put too many names on the wall this time around. Though Thane's death was...bittersweet, others were a bit more painful.

Callie Del Noire

What's everyones favorite weapons in single play..for me.. it's the Scorpion.. can you say.. Cerebus Chunky Salsa? Sure you can.

Major Major

So far, I've completed a single ME 1 playthrough. Commander Martin Shephard, a Soldier who crosstrained as a commando. Spacer, held off the Batarians in the Skyllian Blitz, fought through the game to protect Galactic Stability, while romancing Liara. He saved the Rachni Queen on Noveria and the Zhu's Hope colony on Feros; the death of Lt. Kaiden Alenko on Virmire weighs heavily on his conscience.

SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on March 09, 2012, 01:15:26 AM
What's everyones favorite weapons in single play..for me.. it's the Scorpion.. can you say.. Cerebus Chunky Salsa? Sure you can.

I like pistols and smgs.... don't know the names off hand.... Though I'm liking the Valkyrie rifle.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: SinXAzgard21 on March 09, 2012, 02:23:22 PM
I like pistols and smgs.... don't know the names off hand.... Though I'm liking the Valkyrie rifle.

Believe it or not..the Carniflex heavy pistol is more flexible.. (it chews through everything better than the scropion) but I think my new favorite toy is the Geth Plasma shotgun.. fully charged it can ALMOST kill a marauder under shields in one shot.. 2 dots left.

Problem is.. I'm always running out of ammo.. (ending segment of the campaign..it's a slog)

Inkidu

One game I'm looking forward to completing is one of my FemShep games. She's renegade through and through until it comes to making the big decisions (the rachni queen for example). Basically a soft spot and heart of gold but don't expect her to do it nicely.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Callie Del Noire

Finished my first playthrough. Did damn near everything I could to get the max military strength (came in just under 5k effective strength..THREE POINTS under).

Shan't say a thing about the ending.

SilentGemini

I stick with assault rifles for the most part. I'm replaying ME2 right now and I think I prefer the Avenger to the Vindicator for the constant stream of fire.

Who is everyone's favorite side character other than Shepard.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: SilentGemini on March 09, 2012, 05:49:03 PM
I stick with assault rifles for the most part. I'm replaying ME2 right now and I think I prefer the Avenger to the Vindicator for the constant stream of fire.

Who is everyone's favorite side character other than Shepard.

I'm split. The Prothean is nice in a fight.. but all in all it's Liara, with Legion or Tali for tech side stuff. Though Ashely is fun with the incendiary grenades.

ausyandy

My John Shepard is a Soldier, taking the paragon route until further into the game when he'll start turning a bit renegade while losing patience with certain people, while romancing Kaidan.

My favourite weapons are the shotguns. Lots of fun blasting Cerberus guys with those. And my favourite squad has to be Kaidan, and either James or Garrus.

Callie Del Noire

don't forget to update your weapons.. I didn't the first time around.. I just slapped mods on them. :D

SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on March 09, 2012, 07:09:35 PM
don't forget to update your weapons.. I didn't the first time around.. I just slapped mods on them. :D

the weight idea for this game made it cool, gave you the ability to play an infiltrator that uses smg and pistol.... Also melee more often as well.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

TentacleFan

Have had my copy of 3 since launch day but haven't dug into it yet. I was in the midst of a playthrough of 2 that I'm nearing completion of. I wanted to go back and replay it first because when I did my first time through with a male Shepard I didn't have the PS3-comic book download to let me make choices for the first game. (I didn't play 1 because it didn't come out for PS3 which is my only console and I don't really have a PC up to gaming) My current Shepard, who is the one I'll be taking into 3 when I wrap it up is a fem-Shep. Black shoulder length hair with dark eyeliner. She romanced Liara in the 1st one (via the interactive comic backstory) and again in 2 during the Shadow Broker DLC. She's definitely a paragon but with a renegade edge when the situation calls for it. I haven't decided if I want to pass the Reaper-tech on to the Illusive man at the end this time. I know it's likely to have some important consequences in 3. I might make 2 saves and try both out eventually.

As for favorite other characters I like most of the cast in 2 really. Kasumi the thief from the DLC is pretty cool. I also like Miranda, Tali, Legion, and Garrus a lot. I didn't lose anyone in my first time through 2, I don't plan on it this time either.
I'm going to take my time. I have all the time in the world. To make you mine. It is written in the stars above.

Something's wrong when you regret, things that haven't happened yet. - The Submarines - 1940

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Callie Del Noire

Quote from: TentacleFan on March 10, 2012, 02:00:33 AM
As for favorite other characters I like most of the cast in 2 really. Kasumi the thief from the DLC is pretty cool. I also like Miranda, Tali, Legion, and Garrus a lot. I didn't lose anyone in my first time through 2, I don't plan on it this time either.

Not all of them are your choice to save or not.  I liked the chemistry with most of the me2 crew. Mordin, Grunt, Thane, Jack and Joker/Edi particularly

Chris Brady

I should see about getting the latest DLC for ME2.  Have that tide me over until I can get ME3...
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

eBadger

Noa Shepard is a cute little thing, dainty and very lesbian.  Basically a guy in eye candy, as I figure that if I'm going to stare at a character's ass for several hours I want it to be a cute one.  I don't get too invested in the RP personality of games like this; I enjoy the story, but the options I or my character would really take are rarely offered. 

I'm a bit surprised by the lack of romantic potential so far in the game, but maybe that's me.  Also, my xbox died and lost all my ME1/2 saves, so I'm starting with the default - is it any different if you've have relationships with the characters before?

As for characters, Joker and EDI are great, and I need my damn quarian back!!!


Cold Heritage

#28
Playing as a soldier. Made mostly paragon choices. I am digging the Mattock, and I like the Saber. Both are pretty nice weapons. I like having armour-piercing ammunition and laughing at Guardians and their shields. Basically always roll out with James Vega and EDI.

Jack is so great. She is still my waifu. Rekindled that romance with authority. I do want to peel her out of a military uniform, and I make no apologies for that. :3

Man . . . the Quarians. I get the choice, and these guys are done. I mean it. Done. Period. Full stop.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

#29
I just beat it, and wow was that ending terrible. Not terrible as in bad, but terrible as in implication. Like the great and terrible Oz terrible. However, I didn't like it. Not one, bit. I am unfulfilled.

Ending thoughts
It's too big. The ending is just too big, too metaphysical. The problem is that basically with the choice's you're given (which aren't too clearly laid out, there's no indication of how to pick the other two I went right down the center, and I have no idea what that did. So that was horribly done presentation wise. I don't feel like playing the long-ass ending over again to figure it out. Other that that it's hard to wrap your head around.

More on the ending though. The three choices are wipe out all synthetic life and technology and start again. Add yourself to the crucible and blend synthetic life and organic life, or control the reapers. I think it mostly renders all of Shepard's actions moot and void.

We're sent back to the stone-age to basically repeat mistakes and no Mass Relays.
We're merged with tech just like the Reapers want anyway.
Honestly, the only ending I would consider good would be the control the reapers ending, but I'll have to see what happens.

The fucking Catalyst wins three out of four times, as far as I can tell and I hate that. What about the human spirit and fighting for your right to live as an ascended space fairing race? Nope.

It pisses me off. Mainly because no matter what Shepard dies. He/She fucking dies. I was so looking forward to seeing Jack again, too. What the hell. Can't you just you know... destroy the fucking reapers. Retcon that shit, now!
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Inkidu on March 11, 2012, 12:23:15 AM
I just beat it, and wow was that ending terrible. Not terrible as in bad, but terrible as in implication. Lie the great and terrible Oz terrible. However, I didn't like it. Not one, bit. I am unfulfilled.

Play through again and make sure to have your military reediness at 5k+...  It is worth it.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Inkidu

Quote from: SinXAzgard21 on March 11, 2012, 12:27:19 AM
Play through again and make sure to have your military reediness at 5k+...  It is worth it.
I'm pretty sure I had five K. The green bar was all the way to the end, or is that just military might? But that raises another problem. The crappy war room system. Throughout the whole game it was fifty percent, everywhere. Nothing I did ever brought any sector closer to anything but a coin toss. It's never really explained.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Wolfy

Quote from: Inkidu on March 11, 2012, 12:33:42 AM
I'm pretty sure I had five K. The green bar was all the way to the end, or is that just military might? But that raises another problem. The crappy war room system. Throughout the whole game it was fifty percent, everywhere. Nothing I did ever brought any sector closer to anything but a coin toss. It's never really explained.

Play the multiplayer. Each match earns you at least 2%. Actually completing it earns 4%, probably more on higher difficulties.

o3o

Chris Brady

Quote from: eBadger on March 10, 2012, 03:24:23 PM
Noa Shepard is a cute little thing, dainty and very lesbian.  Basically a guy in eye candy, as I figure that if I'm going to stare at a character's ass for several hours I want it to be a cute one.

If you spend your time in a game staring at your character's ass, you have gameplay issues.  Like, a nasty case of constant DEATH.

Whenever I play any 3rd person game, I am usually checking what's around the character, kinda like, I dunno, REAPERS.  I don't have the time to stare at a pixel bottom. ;D
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Wolfy on March 11, 2012, 03:00:19 AM
Play the multiplayer. Each match earns you at least 2%. Actually completing it earns 4%, probably more on higher difficulties.

o3o
Okay, so I'm going to assume you don't need it to get the >5K ending. Because if you do I'm pissed. I can't play multiplayer unless it's spiltscreen or has a single player V comupter playability.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Callie Del Noire

I only had 2 choicesfirst time through so you must have been ahead of me. I am replaying, less guns more biopics this time. Warp + throw = fun sights. Wish I knew what a newton of force was comparable to.

Inkidu

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on March 11, 2012, 08:27:32 AM
I only had 2 choicesfirst time through so you must have been ahead of me. I am replaying, less guns more biopics this time. Warp + throw = fun sights. Wish I knew what a newton of force was comparable to.
The newton is the SI unit for force; it is equal to the amount of net force required to accelerate a mass of one kilogram at a rate of one metre per second squared. Newton's second law of motion states: F = ma, multiplying m (kg) by a (m/s2), The newton is therefore:[1]

    {\rm N = kg~\frac{m}{s^2}}

Units used:

    N = newton
    kg = kilogram
    m = metre
    s = second

If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Callie Del Noire

Yeah, just finished looking things up. Maxed out throw and warp are a nasty combo.

Inkidu

God I hope the 5K endings are better. Otherwise, ME3 is going off my GOTY list. I'll just redo proto-shep as my ME3 import. I'm going to go finish a ME2 game and try and figure out where they went wrong.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Nyarly

I haven't played it, but from what I read, all endings are horrible. It's the biggest criticism of the game.

Inkidu

Quote from: Nyarly on March 11, 2012, 10:50:55 AM
I haven't played it, but from what I read, all endings are horrible. It's the biggest criticism of the game.
After chewing it over, and getting over my initial outrage. I don't necessarily dislike the endings as much as I dislike the way they're presented in the final moments of the game. If they had reeled them in and not gone for so big they'd be fine, but mostly my hangups with the ending are in the mechanics of getting the ending I want. 
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Nikisha

Don't click if you have not finished the game!

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The endings suck, although I should say ending with very slight variations. They're terrible; it's not that Annashi and I agree only on it, the majority of players think the same way. The game is great except for that last 15 minutes which is full of non-sense. Check the official forums and you will see the amount of rage that is going on.

SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Inkidu on March 11, 2012, 06:03:35 AM
Okay, so I'm going to assume you don't need it to get the >5K ending. Because if you do I'm pissed. I can't play multiplayer unless it's spiltscreen or has a single player V comupter playability.

It adds 27 seconds to the end game movie which shows something rather interesting.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Cold Heritage

Quote from: Nyarly on March 11, 2012, 10:50:55 AM
I haven't played it, but from what I read, all endings are horrible. It's the biggest criticism of the game.

Agree. A couple things I sort of wonder, though.

Ending Choice Musing
So, if the Mass Relays get destroyed, fine. But, it seems like, if you take the control or synthesis ending, you could just rebuild. I mean, Shepard could just be like "yo, Reapers, rebuild the Mass Relay network," and they would have to comply. Or in the synthesis ending, everyone could just work together to do it since everyone's a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

Geth/Quarian, EDI Musings
So, despite that I said I would make the choice that resulted in Quarian extinction (and make no mistake, by the time I got to that point I think they earned extinction), I went ahead and allowed the upgrade, but talked the Quarian fleet down from their idiotic Leeroy Jenkins attack - as an aside, it would have been nice to have been able to tell Legion to reboot the Geth dreadnought, because you know what? That thing would've been so much more useful against the Reapers than the Quarian "we only needed seventeen days to get ourselves into the 'save us from unlubricated assfuckings, Shepard!' position" fleet - so that I basically saved everyone. I ushered in an age of peace between an organic and synthetic species. I showed them that they could exist in harmony and the settlement of their planet was years ahead of schedule.

I also encouraged EDI and Joker to enter into a romantic relationship. They seem pretty happy about it.

Why can't I point that out?
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

None of the endings make any sense whatsoever, if you stop and think about them.

I'm completely on board with "Demand a better ending to Mass Effect 3". So should you!

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Hemingway on March 11, 2012, 09:23:08 PM
None of the endings make any sense whatsoever, if you stop and think about them.

I'm completely on board with "Demand a better ending to Mass Effect 3". So should you!

Some of the outcomes make sense.. like the issues with the Genophage, or the Quarian/Geth.. but the FINAL ending (at least the one I saw) sucks.

Cold Heritage

I had heard it bandied about that the original purpose to the Reapers was to stop technological development once civilizations started developing things that started employing Element Zero, because that resulted in something something hand wave hand wave treknobabble treknobabble and as such the heat death of the universe would be accelerated. That might have been interesting if they had kept that element (if it ever existed). Then the ending could have had Shepard go Paragon and convince them to end the cycle and that it is possible for them to change and find a better way, or something.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 11, 2012, 09:23:08 PM
None of the endings make any sense whatsoever, if you stop and think about them.

I'm completely on board with "Demand a better ending to Mass Effect 3". So should you!

spoilered for implied giveaway. If you've not beat the game, don't read
The more time that passes the more okay I am with the endings. They're not great, they're okay. I'm certainly not going to do something like petition them to rewrite them. No one but an editor ever makes an author rewrite his endings. Sure some things are retconned in the wide world of literature. I don't think gamers should think themselves somehow entitled to a redo. Guys, as unfulfilled as they left me, you've just got live with the bad ending. It happens, sadly. You could point to Broken Steel, but they're two different styles of games. Broken Steel was a tacked on plot to basically justify an open-ended game.

What makes the endings bad is that they make no sense, more correctly, they render everything Shepard has done pointless. They in fact, render a whole galaxy as pointless as if the Reapers had wiped it out anyway. That's what makes it a bad ending. As optimistic as some of them can be (They're all on the low scale anyway) the underlying nullification can't be undone.

Honestly, it's my personal practice as a writer to end a work as optimistic as humanly and realistically possible. Why? Ending are naturally sad. ME3 ends so bitter-sweetly that the bitter of the sadness just smashes everything up. That's why it's bad stylistically in my opinion.

I would like to bring a major gripe of gameplay forth Bioware. Something that you should actually look into fixing. Why is that the people with internet connections get an easier game? Huh!? Why? A guy who plays online can get the best endings with literally half the same force. While a single player person has to literally bust his ass to get everything in the game just so he can squeak by.

Trying to push Origin or something? What a dick move. 
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

#48
Ending speculation
If you read through the speculation, you'll see the comparison to Broken Steel is more appropriate than you might think.

Nobody - or at least very few people - are asking for a total rewrite of the endings. Their desires range from a bit of an explanation of just what the hell happened, others for more options. I'd like to see the, ah, actual ending. I find the evidence that the time from the moment you're hit by the Reaper death ray to the end is all a hallucination to be quite compelling. I will make a rough outline of why I think that's the case now.

1) When you wake up, everything appears dreamlike. You're alone. You can hear them talk about how the ground team was wiped out and they're pulling back ...

2) ... in spite of which Anderson says they followed you inside...

3) ... Into an unknown part of the Citadel that seems to defy all logic. Anderson suggests that the place is "changing", but it doesn't explain how he got there long before you, how the Illusive Man appears to be controlling him ... or for that matter what the Illusive Man is doing there at all. I mean, the more you think about it, the less sense it makes. The Illusive Man is indoctrinated by the Reapers, who are the creations of the god child, who ... sees the Reapers no longer work, and ... wants the cycle to end. Why couldn't the Illusive Man end the cycle? Why would they need Shepard to go there and do it for them? Unless the child doesn't control the Reapers, and ... ugh, it hurts my head just thinking about how little sense it makes. But there's more!

4) All along, you've been fighting the Reapers, and it's well established that they're an insidious force, capable of getting in your head without you even realizing until it's too late. Could that explain why the choices all seem ... wrong? Anderson encourages you to destroy the Reapers, the Illusive Man to control them. The kid goes out of his way to make destruction seem like a bad choice. It doesn't seem like a typical renegade choice, and yet it clearly is.

EDIT 4.2) I neglected to mention the oily shadows slithering around the screen during your conversation with the Illusive Man.

5) If you pick either Control or Synthesis, you die. If you pick Destroy, you get the hidden ending, with Shepard lying in a pile of rubble, apparently dead, before taking one deep breath. This, it seems to me, at least heavily suggests that the kid is trying to convince you to go with Control or Synthesis because it represents giving up. Through destroying the Reapers - metaphorically or literally - you break free of their hold, you wake up where the hallucination began, in a pile of rubble, in London.

I'm probably leaving out important things here, but the weight of the evidence seems clear. There's a very good video on youtube explaining it in deep detail too, especially elaborating on how everything seems ... backwards.

Now, it's entirely possible BioWare just wrote themselves into a corner here. It's possible they didn't intend for this, but you have to admit the evidence certainly suggests it.

I don't see how releasing a game where the ending is left out is a sound strategy, but ... it presents them with a very viable way of making it seem that way without having to actually retcon anything. I recognize that "it was all a dream" is a pretty lame device, but it's miles better than ... well, whatever it is we got, which just makes no goddamn sense. And dooms the galaxy to a slow death.

Cold Heritage

Ending Question
Did Anderson say anyone else made it up to the Citadel? I thought he said that apart from Shepard, no one else made. When you first wake up and grab the pistol, the radio chatter says something to the effect of the ground team getting decimated by, presumably, Harbringer.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 12, 2012, 02:45:55 PM
Ending Question
Did Anderson say anyone else made it up to the Citadel? I thought he said that apart from Shepard, no one else made. When you first wake up and grab the pistol, the radio chatter says something to the effect of the ground team getting decimated by, presumably, Harbringer.

Answer
It's unclear. I just played the ending over, in part because I was wondering about the same thing. You're absolutely right: the radio chatter says nobody made it there. It's part of what makes Anderon's appearance so mysterious - enough so to suggest that it's not actually happening.

To answer your question, Anderson doesn't say if "I" or "we" followed Shepard. He answered with an incomplete sentence, actually. I'm almost positive he just says "Followed you up". However, he does say "we didn't end up in the same place", or something to that effect - emphasis on "we". In that context, it can mean one out of two things: either Anderson came with someone else and they ended up elsewhere, or he's saying he and Shepard ended up in different places. It's just one more thing that doesn't add up.

Callie Del Noire

Whats even more fun is there is an online petion being run to CHANGE the ending.

Hemingway

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on March 12, 2012, 03:44:41 PM
Whats even more fun is there is an online petion being run to CHANGE the ending.

It's so cute how 25000 people have voted for that. And every journalist out there is being a condescending dick. With a few notable exceptions, though.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 03:47:44 PM
It's so cute how 25000 people have voted for that. And every journalist out there is being a condescending dick. With a few notable exceptions, though.
I honestly think it's kind of... how do I put it? Immature. Like I said, bad writing happens. If you don't like it don't buy anymore of their games. You don't see or hear about people petitioning people to redo TV shows, books, or movies. It smacks of spoiled behavior. I know, I felt the same way, but I realized how petulant I was being.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

BrokenShards

Got my ME3 a little late. The company I pre-ordered with lost the right to sell the game (boo).

My FemShep is a seasoned veteran. Has done ME1,ME2 and only lost one squad member. Poor Kaiden, he will be remembered for his sacrifice. I just hope Ashley was worth rescuing.
Ready to write when someone requires.

Hemingway

Quote from: Inkidu on March 12, 2012, 03:56:56 PM
I honestly think it's kind of... how do I put it? Immature. Like I said, bad writing happens. If you don't like it don't buy anymore of their games. You don't see or hear about people petitioning people to redo TV shows, books, or movies. It smacks of spoiled behavior. I know, I felt the same way, but I realized how petulant I was being.

I'm not sure I understand.

Bad writing happens. It's possible to fix it. Without even having to undo the bad writing - good writing following the bad writing would negate the bad writing. It's been done before ( either once, if you just consider Broken Steel, or many more times if you consider all retcons ever ). It would make literally tens of thousands of people - at the very least - a lot happier with the game, and that's a very conservative estimate. Yet somehow it's immature to ask for. Immature, of all things.

Disagree if you like, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't insult nearly 30 000 people because you have a view of how things ought to be.

Cold Heritage

#56
Thanks for the response, Hemingway.

As an aside, I was on another board, and someone linked to some endgame dialog with Shepard/Anderson that apparently got cut.

Anderson

Would've been nice if they'd left it in.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Callie Del Noire

#57
Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 12, 2012, 04:36:35 PM
Thanks for the response, Hemingway.

As an aside, I was on another board, and someone linked to some endgame dialog with Shepard/Anderson that apparently got cut.

Anderson

Would've been nice if they'd left it in.

Sounds a LOT like what I heard in my first ending (except for a few bits)

Hemingway

There definitely is audio that's cut from the ending.

However, I know an extended Anderson dialogue unlocks if your readiness rating is high enough. Is that it? I didn't actually listen.

Cold Heritage

It is an extended talk with Anderson, but if it unlocks I didn't get my readiness high enough for it. :/
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Callie Del Noire

#60
Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
There definitely is audio that's cut from the ending.

However, I know an extended Anderson dialogue unlocks if your readiness rating is high enough. Is that it? I didn't actually listen.

The scene is just after they finish up with TIM (The Illusive Man).. I got to hear the FEM-Shepard version of it. That music in the background is driving me nuts.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 04:03:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand.

Bad writing happens. It's possible to fix it. Without even having to undo the bad writing - good writing following the bad writing would negate the bad writing. It's been done before ( either once, if you just consider Broken Steel, or many more times if you consider all retcons ever ). It would make literally tens of thousands of people - at the very least - a lot happier with the game, and that's a very conservative estimate. Yet somehow it's immature to ask for. Immature, of all things.

Disagree if you like, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't insult nearly 30 000 people because you have a view of how things ought to be.
Okay, maybe I have to give you the reverse example.

George Lucas and the Star Wars films. Everyone hates that he diddles with it. They don't want him to change it. You can petition him all you like, and I'm sure people have, but he hasn't. Just because thousands of people want the writers for ME3 to rewrite the ending or add in something extra doesn't mean they have to, or that they should. The author is note beholden to a bunch of upset fans. I'd lose all respect for any author who caved to internet petitions to change the ending of his work.

Basically it's the demand of, "We don't like, change it" While yelling loudly in large groups. It's a bad ending, and I doubt any amount of whining and yelling over the internet is going to get Bioware to do anything about it; honestly, I'd lose all respect for them if they did.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Quote from: Inkidu on March 12, 2012, 05:31:06 PM
Okay, maybe I have to give you the reverse example.

George Lucas and the Star Wars films. Everyone hates that he diddles with it. They don't want him to change it. You can petition him all you like, and I'm sure people have, but he hasn't. Just because thousands of people want the writers for ME3 to rewrite the ending or add in something extra doesn't mean they have to, or that they should. The author is note beholden to a bunch of upset fans. I'd lose all respect for any author who caved to internet petitions to change the ending of his work.

Basically it's the demand of, "We don't like, change it" While yelling loudly in large groups. It's a bad ending, and I doubt any amount of whining and yelling over the internet is going to get Bioware to do anything about it; honestly, I'd lose all respect for them if they did.

Have to? Hardly. Should? Debateable. Entirely subjective.

I think your position is a highly arrogant one. There's evidence that this controversy is actually hurting BioWare - costing them sales and causing sharp price drops. BioWare is a business, not a writer. I'm sure they can afford those lost profits - but then again, in the long term, they might not.

You say you'd lose all respect for a writer who changed something because of "a bunch of upset fans". Which, again, is sort of insulting, considering the popular polls show only 2% of those who vote are happy with the ending, while something like 85% are very unhappy. A few people have tried to dismiss this on grounds that "only" 30 000 people out of a few hundred thousand have voted, but they clearly don't understand how polls or statistics work. It's fairly reasonable to assume that, even if 85% of the total players aren't totally dissatisfied, a large chunk of them are. And suppose they're right? Is it always wrong to give in to fan pressure, even if you think it over and decide they're right? Like I said, an arrogant position.

Inkidu

I'm sorry you think it's arrogant, but I think Bioware should live with the fact they wrote a bad ending. It should reflect in their sales. They should learn a lesson. Not a, "Done worry we can fix that later."
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Fans who invested hundreds of hours into the games disagree. When a fix would be that easy and please that many people, general principle isn't enough. It's going to hurt BioWare a lot more than offering a better ending would.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 05:59:38 PM
Fans who invested hundreds of hours into the games disagree. When a fix would be that easy and please that many people, general principle isn't enough. It's going to hurt BioWare a lot more than offering a better ending would.
I put in my hours, too. I just think they should have to live with it.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Quote from: Inkidu on March 12, 2012, 07:22:17 PM
I put in my hours, too. I just think they should have to live with it.

Why?

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 07:25:47 PM
Why?
Because I'm sick of this behavior. "Don't worry how good the ending is, we can change it later. Don't worry about getting the bugs out. We can fix it later."

No, at the end of the day the writing staff at Bioware thought the ending was adequate. It's not broken, it's just bad. It's called owning up to your work. If it's crap, it's crap. If they wanted to fix it they shouldn't have published it.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

#68
Because you're sick of it. Yeah.

You could make exactly the same argument for not fixing bugs in a game, you know. So what if the dragons in Skyrim fly backwards - it's still playable, we messed up, we have to live with it.

Or is it different because it's not "art", and so exempt from the rules?

Edit: For the record, BioWare are dropping hints that the endings might not be the "endings", too. It's all very cryptic at this point, but still.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 07:35:56 PM
Because you're sick of it. Yeah.

You could make exactly the same argument for not fixing bugs in a game, you know. So what if the dragons in Skyrim fly backwards - it's still playable, we messed up, we have to live with it.

Or is it different because it's not "art", and so exempt from the rules?

Edit: For the record, BioWare are dropping hints that the endings might not be the "endings", too. It's all very cryptic at this point, but still.
No, no, no. You see, bugs are lapses in function. They do impact the gameplay, and they're a mistake. However, in function the endings serve the purpose they were meant to.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Shepard stops the Reapers, and it happens in such a metaphysical (basically magical) way that plot holes don't work. You basically rewrote the universe.

Just because no one likes the ending doesn't mean they have to rewrite it. It's just bad. It happens all the time. I've read, seen, watched, and played so many bad books, movies, TV shows, and video games. However, no one complains about that. Sheesh next time I see a crappy movie I think I'll heckle the writers of it to rewrite it.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Let's assume that no book, movie, TV show or video game was ever rewritten - which is a patently false assumption, but it's irrelevant, so let's go with it.

Is that an argument against ever doing so? No. No, it's not. It's a statement of what has been done, not what can be done. You're still not giving a single good argument for why it shouldn't be done.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 08:24:35 PM
Let's assume that no book, movie, TV show or video game was ever rewritten - which is a patently false assumption, but it's irrelevant, so let's go with it.

Is that an argument against ever doing so? No. No, it's not. It's a statement of what has been done, not what can be done. You're still not giving a single good argument for why it shouldn't be done.
No one should ever have to cave to the requests of fans in a temper-tantrum. How about that? My point is that it's never been re-written because the fans throw hissy-fits. Creators diddle all the time. Again, George Lucas. He doesn't do it because of the fans. You've not not given one good reason why the fans have the right to demand a rewrite.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Heaven Sent Blossom

Quote from: Hemingway on March 12, 2012, 05:39:48 PM
...There's evidence that this controversy is actually hurting BioWare - costing them sales...

I'm curious about this, I don't follow the sales charts as closely as I used to however it was my understanding that ME3 has outperformed both its predecessors week one sales combined and is still riding very high, numbers wise. Is this not the case?

Hemingway

Quote from: Heaven Sent Blossom on March 13, 2012, 03:06:04 AM
I'm curious about this, I don't follow the sales charts as closely as I used to however it was my understanding that ME3 has outperformed both its predecessors week one sales combined and is still riding very high, numbers wise. Is this not the case?

QuoteRumors of a sharp price drop due to cancelled orders and the backlash have surfaced, and a quick check of Amazon.com has revealed that new copies of the game are available at retailers for around 45$ brand new.

http://robotgeek.co.uk/2012/03/12/editorial-the-mass-effect-3-backlash/

It's only rumors, as you can see, so take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if people - many people - have been discouraged from buying, however.

Or, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

Quote from: Inkidu on March 12, 2012, 09:08:00 PM
No one should ever have to cave to the requests of fans in a temper-tantrum. How about that? My point is that it's never been re-written because the fans throw hissy-fits. Creators diddle all the time. Again, George Lucas. He doesn't do it because of the fans. You've not not given one good reason why the fans have the right to demand a rewrite.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 13, 2012, 09:06:04 AM
http://robotgeek.co.uk/2012/03/12/editorial-the-mass-effect-3-backlash/

It's only rumors, as you can see, so take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if people - many people - have been discouraged from buying, however.

Or, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.
Everyone thinks their tantrums are justified, this is just one en masse. This isn't some great injustice, the game functions on a high degree, there's nothing fundamentally wrong, the endings are purely a matter of taste, a vastly unpopular one, but taste nonetheless. I hope Bioware puts its foot down. I'm not going to argue with it further.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Quote from: Inkidu on March 13, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Everyone thinks their tantrums are justified, this is just one en masse. This isn't some great injustice, the game functions on a high degree, there's nothing fundamentally wrong, the endings are purely a matter of taste, a vastly unpopular one, but taste nonetheless. I hope Bioware puts its foot down. I'm not going to argue with it further.

I wouldn't do that either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/

Heaven Sent Blossom

The robotgeek article is interesting, however considering the state of "video game journalism" the rumours certainly need to be taken with enough salt to kill a large dog. I know the game has moved 3.5 million units so far, however the retail figures are a little harder to come by outside of the 890k first day sales from America and it's "chart topping" status (which is a terrible indicator to use, considering how retail chains make charts up a lot of the time.).
So far we know the shipped numbers are good, however sell through might take a hit from this backlash. I don't personally believe it will, however it will be interesting to watch how it all plays out either way.

The problem with trying to equate Star Wars subscription drop off with the backlash is a different one, I believe a lot of people will be hitting the end of their 30 day freebie around now. And attempting to tie any drop off with the Mass Effect situation would be kind of--shaky I think.

Cold Heritage

Am I just crazy, or did they basically drop the Asari being able to read minds after ME1?
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 14, 2012, 10:44:36 PM
Am I just crazy, or did they basically drop the Asari being able to read minds after ME1?
You're just crazy. ;D

No, Asari could never just read minds in the traditional sense. They can do a kind of mind meld with other species and share in each other thoughts, but I imagine that an Asari who went around doing it willy-nilly would be considered a slut at best and a rapist at worst. :\
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

#79
Quote from: Hemingway on March 13, 2012, 09:06:04 AMOr, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.
On the SWTOR front, it's actually kinda twofold.  The first reason is that ME3 shares(d) the some of the same writers.  And the second, which leads from the first is, if ME3 can have a lousy ending, what's to stop them from butchering SWTOR in a similar manner.  That's the rational explanation, the REAL reason?

Word of mouth is still pretty powerful.  Hell, it's never been not powerful.  People are more willing to listen to their friends, even though they could be wrong, than actual facts.  So if one person says it's bad, then people LISTEN.  Even if that one person is talking out of their ass.

For the record, both Bethesda AND Valve have changed endings in their games due to fan outcry.  Bethesda changed the ending in Fallout 3.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
In the original, if you had only two choices.  Sacrifice yourself to the Radiation or send the girl in to do it.  Despite having a giant Supermutant nearby who was immune to it.  The second change had you waking up after the radiation burst to keep playing, no matter which you chose.

And Valve changed Portal's ending to fit that they were making a Portal 2.  As originally, there wasn't going to be.  But the fans demanded a second Portal.  And we got one, and it turns out it was a good thing too.  Cuz P2 is AWESOME.

And apparently, the outcry is turning to charity to help get their point across:  http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/mass-effect-3/1220719p1.html
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Fuck the endings. That's just crap writing or lazy writing or some kind of DLC grab. No, what I want to know is how you can possibly have 5K effective readiness without going multiplayer. How? I did everything I know how to do. I was meticulous. I think you need like a perfect save from ME1 and ME2. Because I know there are some things that I had that probably aren't available to the ME3 only character. I've made it all the way to the "Final Assault" and I'm still two thousand short! I can't believe that bullshit. I did everything. I got all the sides to the table, I hunted down and did all the sidequests. I scoured the galaxy for every piece of shit war resource and I'm still short. Screw this!

So again, fuck the writing. That's not the real problem with the game. It's the fucking multiplayer only thing. God, I thought they were doing something neat, offering people the chance to get achievements doing both, but noooooooo. The only way that doesn't involve insanity is to have an internet connection.

Fuck BioWare. At this point I hope they get smashed by all this negative publicity they've brought on themselves. Don't fix the endings. They. Fucking. Deserve. It! Hours wasted!
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Callie Del Noire

I was 50 short without multiplayer.  Which I didn't do. And to be honest I fail to see how I cold have done much better. I had TWO systems below 100% explored at the end and I am willing to bet at least one was a wrecked fuel station.

Inkidu

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on March 16, 2012, 09:33:33 PM
I was 50 short without multiplayer.  Which I didn't do. And to be honest I fail to see how I cold have done much better. I had TWO systems below 100% explored at the end and I am willing to bet at least one was a wrecked fuel station.
I searched every system to 100 percent (some of them just don't have anything, and I still checked them after every priority). Reaper dodging is easy. I looked at guides, I went through that game with a fine-tooth comb and still came up short. I got everyone to the table, did every side quest. I went back to the Citadel again, and again, and again. Just to run around listening for hours trying to make sure I had everything. I talked to people multiple times, approved everything in the specter office. I'm not saying it probably isn't doable, I'm saying it's so fucking unfair it might as well not be doable at all, and not just from the have/have not multiplayer aspect. No. I doubt people who play ME3 only games are stuck out of it too. In fact, if you made one major renegade choice I'm sure you're fucked.

So, yeah. BioWare's not seeing a dime out of me again. Hell, I even liked Dragon Age II, but at least it didn't try to screw me over on purpose!
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Driskoll

This is basically how I feel about the ending :P


Actually, this is how I really feel. I posted this a few days ago on Reddit simply because I needed to get it out. The ending was such a punch in the gut and some parts just made no sense to me whatsoever. I've fixed it a little now that I've calmed down a bit.

More Massive Spoilers Ahead


To address the issue of why I dislike the ending, I think I should start off with how much I love the series and ME3 up until the ending. I've been a devoted fan since ME1 and this series has had hands down one of the best videogame story arcs I've ever participated in. From the beginning Mass Effect was an experiment to combine a third person shooter with a RPG in a futuristic setting, something few have attempted as far as I know. There have been problems here and there sure, but overall the series has been more than entertaining.

In true Bioware fashion, the characters and dialogue in the ME series have been top notch. I've always found myself interested in the lives of Shepard's companions due to how well made and voice acted they all were. As an amateur writer myself, I've always liked what Bioware has done with the teammates. They're not afraid to put characters through hell for the sake of the story, and will even kill them depending upon Shepard's actions.

Getting to the issue at hand, the main reason I don't like the ending is simply because I don't think it's the ending Shepard and the rest of the people on the Normandy deserve. Almost all of them have gone through so much to stop the Reapers, giving up on defending their own homes to pool together at one small shot of saving the galaxy, only to find out the Reapers are simply "doing the work that must be done". If the really are there to eliminate organic advanced organic life simply to bring order to chaos, isn't there a better way? Brutally killing trillions and turning people's loved ones against them seems evil and sadistic, which is why the Reapers make such cool enemies. To find out at the end that they're really just bringing balance to the galaxy doesn't match at all with how they go about doing it. If you had to put down a creature for its own good, would you do it as humanely as possible or kill it slowly?

So that whole ending really doesn't work for me. Call me simple but I would have much preferred the destruction of all Reapers using the crucible. Predictable perhaps but also poetic in a way. Shepard and his crew would destroy the Reapers not just for themselves and the countless dead in their own cycle, but would use the very weapon every race from every cycle worked on to finally put an end to the madness. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I need a "rainbows and sunshine" ending like so many reviewers have claimed about upset ME fans. Would I like to see my male Shep and Tali living together in a beautiful little home on her homeworld? Sure. Does that ending realistically match with the impossible task of stopping the Reapers? Not really. If Shep had to die to finally put an end to it, it would be a bitter pill to swallow, but I could do it. Instead of finding peace in a saved galaxy, he/she could find peace in death after making the ultimate sacrifice.

This has all been about my personal views on the ending, which has not even touched on the technical flaws as I see them. With the ending as it is now, so many questions are left unanswered. Why make a human reaper in ME2? How do the teammates you take to London end up on the Normandy and the garden planet for the end scene? Why is Joker leaving the battle through a mass relay at the time of Shepard's decision? I've even heard reports of players choosing the "destroy all synthetics" ending only to have EDI show up on the Normandy after being in London and step out onto the garden planet with Joker despite the fact that she should be dead. Unless I'm missing something there that's just bad.

I also have a problem with how the endings leave the races in general. I worked so hard to save the krogans and foster peace between the quarians and the geth, and now none of that means anything. They're all stuck in the sol system and will never get to reap the benefit's of having their problems fixed by Shep. Is this what Casey Hudson meant when he wanted players "debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in"? Yeah, I'm "debating" the endings alright.

Heaven Sent Blossom

Man, this ending could've been so much worse when you consider what a no talent hack Mac Walters is.
I'm just sayin'.

Cold Heritage

I guess. But I don't think it's too much to ask to at least measure up to previous installments in the franchise. This is like Superman IV: The Quest for Peace bad here.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

I think as a game it's fine. Above average material. I just can't support companies who believe in rewarding those with high-speed internet while punishing those without, especially in what was until then a single-player focused series. They could have at least given a bot version of the multiplayer to play through just so people could get galactic preparedness up. Nope.

That's why you're here on this list with Blizzard. Happy now?

(Square-Enix, is ironically there for my own personal disenfranchising  with what I believed to be their core values)
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

SinXAzgard21

I'll admit the endings were not the greatest but, hey I enjoyed the game and I like the MP.  I'm planning on still playing swtor and buying Dragon Age III when it comes out.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Inkidu

Quote from: SinXAzgard21 on March 17, 2012, 11:49:24 AM
I'll admit the endings were not the greatest but, hey I enjoyed the game and I like the MP.  I'm planning on still playing swtor and buying Dragon Age III when it comes out.
I don't have a problem with the MP, I have a problem that MP gets a cakewalk single player game, and single player gets a functionally impossible single player game. What. The. Hell.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.  Gamers don't (in general) like metaphysics in their games, unless that's what the game is about.  Anime fans are more lenient because the Japanese love to throw that sort of stuff at them, so they're used to it, whether or not they like it.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Cold Heritage

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 17, 2012, 02:31:52 PM
The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.

Haven't heard that one before, or seen issues that I could infer that from, personally.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 17, 2012, 02:31:52 PM
The big issue of the ending (from what I understand) is that it's too metaphysical.  Gamers don't (in general) like metaphysics in their games, unless that's what the game is about.  Anime fans are more lenient because the Japanese love to throw that sort of stuff at them, so they're used to it, whether or not they like it.

From my experience on the forums and the "Demanda better ending for Mass Effect 3" Facebook page, the reasons are more along the following lines:

Ending Complaints - a small sample
Catalyst is an utter deus ex machina. Catalyst's "logic" does not make sense ( "We heard you didn't like getting killed by Synthetics so we sent Synthetics to kill you so you wouldn't get killed by Synthetics" - think Xzibit. ). Casey Hudsom said explicitly that the game wouldn't have an "A, B or C-type ending". It does. However, that might be an overstatement, because broadly speaking, all the endings leave the galaxy in the same terrible state: relay system gone, billions cut off, potentially starving ( all those Turians and Quarians in Sol? Dead. Everyone else in Sol? Dead a little later. ). Joker taking off with your teammates for no reason at all, crashing on a strange planet and somehow surviving despite his disease.

I have a few personal questions, too, that haven't really been addressed. In the Destroy option, the Catalyst says it will destroy synthetic life. I've thought about this, and even if we assume there's a technology capable of affecting only synthetic life, how do you define "synthetic life" - where are the lines drawn between synthetic and organic ( biological ), and between life and non-life?

Not to mention Mass Effect's message from the start has been one of perseverance in the face of overwhelming odds. The endings are a dramatic shift in theme.

Also. It ends on a total cliffhanger. A trilogy ends on a cliffhanger. It's like ending Lord of the Rings with Frodo standing above the volcano. Or Star Wars with Darth Vader looking from Luke to the Emperor, before it fades to black. Closure? I don't think so.

Chris Brady

What I got, I may be mistaken, is that a lot of things aren't explained, an in some cases feel like more of a 'dream sequence' rather than a defined ending.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Hemingway

#93
Dream sequence
What I think you're referring to is the "indoctrination theory", which states that everything from the point you're hit by Harbinger's beam is a hallucination - basically Shepard being tricked by the Reapers. If you're curious about the specific evidence and the finer points of it, just google it. It's explained very well in a lot of forum threads and youtube videos.

Edit: I hear this is a good explanation.

Mass Effect 3 - Indoctrination Of shepard.

Edit 2: What it amounts to is this: the evidence is so compelling that either BioWare meant for indoctrination to seem like a valid explanation, or their writers have absolutely no command on language, and unknowingly wrote an ending that hints so heavily at something they didn't intend that they should all be fired, their right to write forever revoked.

Inkidu

#94
The one about "What makes synthetic life" is pretty easy to explain.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The Crucible uses the mass relays to send a kind of kill code to all A.I. in the galaxy. Any A.I would basically be a computer program of varying complexity. Since organics don't use computer programing to function then they're unaffected.

The problem with big metaphysical endings is they're usually beyond plot holing by the virtue of "A wizard did it", or in this case
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Catalyst
did it.

Also, Hudson probably meant all the endings running the gamut from 0 prep to 5K prep. In addition to A, B, C.

I agree. It's pretty lack luster. They should've brought it back down to Earth.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Although I kind of get why Shepard has to die. He/she's touched the face of God, and you just don't go back to Earth after that. I would have liked to actually see a totally happy ending, but Angst is Art these days and if you can't have some bitter in there "people" hate it. By people I mean art-house snobs.

Still don't think the ending should be rewritten, but I really want to BioWare to slide down the knife a little more. Learn from this mistake. Lose some of the bottom line, and probably fire Casey Hudson. Though, I think he might be beyond that. Maybe then I'll go back. I just don't think it's artsy-craftsy story is its biggest flaw.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?
Oh, come on. "Does the tech exist"? It's fiction, it's been written in. That's not what's important. I imagine that it would be A.I. programing. I think it's generally very distinct (though in it's infancy right now) so anything that doesn't have A.I. programming (Which according to the ME Codex requires a "blue box" which is the term for the specific suite of programing needed to make A.I. Even reapers would have it, but it would be extremely complex.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

Quote from: Inkidu on March 17, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
Oh, come on. "Does the tech exist"? It's fiction, it's been written in. That's not what's important. I imagine that it would be A.I. programing. I think it's generally very distinct (though in it's infancy right now) so anything that doesn't have A.I. programming (Which according to the ME Codex requires a "blue box" which is the term for the specific suite of programing needed to make A.I. Even reapers would have it, but it would be extremely complex.

I know - that's the only reason I suspend my disbelief. Because, honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would work in practice.

I don't think that's actually the case, though. Not with the Reapers - they're actually organic, and only partly synthetic. There's no evidence they require a blue box. And assuming that's the case, what if synthetic life evolves to where it doesn't need a blue box - to where it has essentially created a synthetic brain? It'd still be synthetic life.

And why wouldn't he just say "destroy anything with a blue box"?

Plot holes, that's why. They didn't think it through.

Cold Heritage

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Well, the problem with the "kill code" - let's assume such a thing exists and the technology to distribute it is in place - is that it doesn't address the second part: what separates synthetic life from synthetic non-life?

Geth ain't gonna get chicken pox. A krogan can't get a new body after burning the old one out from overclocking it.

Less facetiously, I can't even begin to grasp why that's a question you can't immediately answer or why, as written, it's a question that bears asking. Even in the context of the red ending, as written, I can't conceive of why someone would bring that up.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 04:54:47 PM
Plot holes, that's why. They didn't think it through.

It's a machine that every race for the last untold number of cycles have been working on for a singular purpose: stop the Reapers. The concept isn't difficult to grasp. It shouldn't come as a shock that it can actually do this when they talk about it the entire game.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 17, 2012, 04:58:08 PM
Geth ain't gonna get chicken pox. A krogan can't get a new body after burning the old one out from overclocking it.

Less facetiously, I can't even begin to grasp why that's a question you can't immediately answer or why, as written, it's a question that bears asking. Even in the context of the red ending, as written, I can't conceive of why someone would bring that up.

It's a machine that every race for the last untold number of cycles have been working on for a singular purpose: stop the Reapers. The concept isn't difficult to grasp. It shouldn't come as a shock that it can actually do this when they talk about it the entire game.

"They've been working on it for a long time" is an excuse for poor writing and not thinking things through? You're clearly not seeing the bigger picture. Up to that point, everything involving synthetics has been, essentially, an exploration of what separates synthetic from non-synthetic life. It's a pretty deep question, especially when you extrapolate into the future.

Cold Heritage

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
"They've been working on it for a long time" is an excuse for poor writing and not thinking things through?

You haven't demonstrated it's poor. You haven't demonstrated it's not thought through.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
You're clearly not seeing the bigger picture. Up to that point, everything involving synthetics has been, essentially, an exploration of what separates synthetic from non-synthetic life.

A bigger picture, at this point, that seems entirely fabricated by your hand from whole cloth. The stuff involving synthetics is an exploration about a single, specific species and a single, specific individual. Nobody compares the Geth to the Krogan. Nobody compares the Genophage to re-writing or destroying the heretic Geth. The relationship between the Geth and the organic species is not brought up at the end of the game. Everything about synthetic life has been allowing the player to decide whether synthetics, once they get to the point where they get self aware enough to act like organics, deserve to be treated as living beings who deserve the same moral and ethical consideration as organic beings. The choices you can make are as far as it goes. It's a yes or no question, and in the case of the Geth, it's not even an honest question because the Quarians are a race of Snidely Whiplashes to a group of peaceniks who are content to be isolated and live in a magic sphere by themselves. And in the case of the Geth and EDI, it's painfull obvious how they are different non-Synthetics. Joker can't put himself in a space or a new body, Hemingway.

No one gave a flying fuck what happened to EVA.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
It's a pretty deep question, especially when you extrapolate into the future.

This is really where I get where Inkidu and bioware are coming from in their reaction to the outcry about the endings.

You really had a lot of good, interesting things to say before this that made me think about the game and what happened. But I just cannot begin to see all of the things you want to see here. Mass Effect does not ask this question, and even if it does, not to the depth you insist it does.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

#101
ending spoilers
I'm not going to restate all the reasons ME3's ending is an incoherent mess. If you're interested, there are plenty of threads on the BioWare forums outlining the issues. To mention a few that I've already brought up: the Catalyst ( that is the Starchild specifically ) is a deus ex machina. It contradicts what Reapers have said in previous encounters. The "logic" of the Catalyst makes no sense ( to say he's basically saying they're destroying you so you won't create synthetics that destroy you is not even an exaggeration ).

To the question of synthetics versus organics, I think you're ignoring the implications of the Geth's Reaper code. It looks like a neural network - like a brain. This, I think, is pretty significant. It's an illustration that the Geth are essentially becoming more like organics. It's not just that they're sentient beings worthy of our moral consideration - there's a transhumanist theme to all of it. It's especially obvious if you see it in the context of the Synthesis ending: organics and synthetics moving toward a sort of common biology.

So, yeah, I still do wonder by what criteria the Crucible discriminates between synthetic and non-synthetic. If it doesn't affect hypothetically synthetics without blue boxes, then it seems like a very weak solution to me.

I'd also appreciate it if you dropped the condescending tone. Sounding like you have all the answers doesn't help your arguments in the least.

Edit: On the one thing you said, concerning EDI and the Geth, and how it's painfully obvious they're different from organics. Yes, true. However, a list of examples does not make for a rule. You can list things about them that make it obvious they're different, but that doesn't tell you anything about at what point they go from being synthetic to organic - or if they can at all. Or, put differently, at what point the Crucible's weapon would no longer affect them.

Cold Heritage

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:48:15 PM
I'd also appreciate it if you dropped the condescending tone.

I apologize for that. I did use language stronger than I wanted to. If you can forgive me that and attribute it to nerd rage in the heat of the moment and not to any personal animosity directed towards you, I would be thankful.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:48:15 PM
Sounding like you have all the answers doesn't help your arguments in the least.

It doesn't do much for anyone, really. It's not the tone I want to use, and again, I'll apologize for that and ask you to forgive me becoming unduly heated.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:48:15 PMTo the question of synthetics versus organics, I think you're ignoring the implications of the Geth's Reaper code. It looks like a neural network - like a brain. This, I think, is pretty significant. It's an illustration that the Geth are essentially becoming more like organics. It's not just that they're sentient beings worthy of our moral consideration - there's a transhumanist theme to all of it. It's especially obvious if you see it in the context of the Synthesis ending: organics and synthetics moving toward a sort of common biology.

I'll grant you ignoring the implications. That's fair and true.

That having been said, I think you overestimate the significance of it in the context of looking at the game. The game does not place any more significance upon it than that it makes the Geth a greater danger to the Quarians - an empirical fact. The implication that the game engages with is that this upgrade makes the Geth more like the Reapers more than that it makes the Geth more like organics. If you save them, they do not act like organics do - their individualism does not demonstrably make them behave like any of the organic species. The Geth go on to demonstrate a nobility and kindness to creators who have for centuries bent themselves to no other goal beyond their extinction: Quarian efforts for peaceful co-existence with the Geth ended when the Quarians fled Rannoch and reflected such a minority view that the Geth are the only ones who remember that Quarians ever thought anything other than - and I am going to be reductionist here - "kill all Geth." And, at the end, the Reaper code upgrade does not make them enough like organics that the Citadel doesn't, for no discernible reason, destroy them by the same 'a space wizard did it' mechanism that destroying a single power coupling deactivates all Reapers. The Geth, post upgrade, become more like EDI than they do human beings.

The Synthesis ending is . . . muddled. The Reapers, who are already mentioned as synthetic and organic, are shown to be affected by the final lightshow like everyone else. I don't think that it's sufficiently developed for either of us to use it as strong evidence towards anything. 

I think, really, if the game wanted to do this, more would be made of biotics requiring mechanical implants, more of Commander Shepard and Kai Leng being significantly machine, or the moment when Shepard muses that he may just be an incredibly complex VI that believes itself Commander Shepard, Grunt and Miranda (who would be poster children for transhumanist themes in the game), or the many artificial enhancements Shepard can get in the games.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:48:15 PMSo, yeah, I still do wonder by what criteria the Crucible discriminates between synthetic and non-synthetic.

I don't think the themes of transhumanism you want to engage with are quite the same as asking why the Crucible, a device constructed over an unspecified number of cycles specifically to affect the Reapers who are more or less already synthesis life forms, affects EDI and the Geth.

Quote from: Hemingway on March 17, 2012, 05:48:15 PMYou can list things about them that make it obvious they're different, but that doesn't tell you anything about at what point they go from being synthetic to organic - or if they can at all. Or, put differently, at what point the Crucible's weapon would no longer affect them.

The problem is, I guess, that EDI and the Geth being affected by the Crucible leads us to different places. It takes you to a realm of transhumanism and evokes thoughts about the setting and its lore. For me, it's just a plot hole and a false consequence of a sucky non-choice put in place for no other purpose than to create false tension. I don't think it's a fault of the game or a plot hole that it doesn't satisfy your interest in transhumanism.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Well, at least we agree that it makes no sense at all.

Endings spoilers/discussion
Because, yeah, my feeling is this: if Destroy only did that - destroyed the Reapers, precluding any chance of benefitting from Reaper technology and of ... Synthesis, then everyone would go with that. We're conditioned to hate the Reapers and fear their technology, basically. So they insert a negative side-effect to make the choice seem less tempting, with little to no regard for how it works, or what the implications are.

If you haven't checked out indoctrination theory, I would. I especially like how, if you assume that theory is correct, Destroy becomes the only winning move.

Ultimately, I think Destroy is the best option regardless. I want the Reapers gone. I want self-determination. I don't want to force everyone into a highly dubious evolution, and I certainly don't want to control the Reapers. I also think Control and Synthesis are both crude in the way they kill Shepard.

My main complaint about Synthesis ( one that, like what I brought up about Destroy, I don't see discussed enough ) is why he has to sacrifice himself. I mean, the Catalyst says add his "energy" to that of the Crucible. If you know a thing or two about physics, you know that's nonsense. There's nothing special about Shepard's energy. I assume his DNA is what is actually added - the information that makes up Shepard. But if that's the case, a lock of hair or some blood would be enough. If it's something else, like his memories, his experiences, and so on, then ... well, first of all they did a very poor job of explaining that, and secondly, they really ought to explain what's going on. Is Shepard special? Does the Synthesis ending make everyone like more like Shepard? Or ... Yeah, long story short, I think it's full of holes.

Control actually has fewer holes, though it leaves out something essential. I mean, I want the Reapers gone, right? I want them gone, but I don't want a Geth genocide on my hands. So, what if I control the Reapers, and ... you know, direct them all into the nearest sun? Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. Problem solved!

But, no. Apparently ... no.

Cold Heritage

Ending Spoilers
I've got to go watch the Control Ending again, although I don't think it will answer the question. Does Control affect the Geth? Because it would double rustle all of my jimmies if the Control ending has the Citadel able to distinguish enough between Reaper and Geth so that only one gets controlled, but in the Destroy ending it can't tell the two apart and I have to kill all synthetics.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 17, 2012, 08:24:25 PM
Ending Spoilers
I've got to go watch the Control Ending again, although I don't think it will answer the question. Does Control affect the Geth? Because it would double rustle all of my jimmies if the Control ending has the Citadel able to distinguish enough between Reaper and Geth so that only one gets controlled, but in the Destroy ending it can't tell the two apart and I have to kill all synthetics.

Well, damn. I hadn't thought of that angle. It definitely isn't implied that the Geth are affected. Or ... EDI. Which, you know, would be really weird. I mean, with Joker and ...

NotoriusBEN

spoiler'ed for end game discussion
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide



which is why the indoctrination theory is so intriguing. Granted, almost anything can be hung up on the bad writing (BSN is an echo chamber of vitriol, but a user there mentioned that the AI is space Hitler with a Mein Kompf complex. The AI used words like Solution, harvest, and ascending to describe mass genocide and pulpification.

I've read transcripts about the endings and listened to the Catalyst and Shepard talking. Depending on your EMS, you are presented with 1, 2 or all 3 choices. During each of those reads, the catalyst alters or omits certain arguments or statements, further trying to influence you away from the destroy option.

It's hard to pick up on your first run through, since your still in WTF mode, and the way its written doesnt allow the exposition to set in, but the Catalyst is trying to direct you away from the Destroy option.  Even when Shepard asks for peace in the synthesis option, the catalyst brushes it aside and just says the cycle will end. The reason many people are dubious of a synthesis ending is because that is what the reapers are... machines with organic pulp in them.

Pulling back to a metagame aspect, If you pick destroy with a High enough EMS, Shepard draws breath in the rubble. I know its a leap of faith but the catalyst made mention that all synthetics would be destroyed and even mentioned you were part synthetic. So two lines of thought occur with catalyst's exposition and what evidence we are presented with:

1) Catalyst is lying through its teeth, sprinkling truth throughout like TIM trying to get you over toward its line of thinking.
Shepard is ok and his synthetics are still working. If his synthetics are working, wouldnt other synthetics be working as well? So that means the geth and edi are also ok?

2) The Catalyst is actually telling the truth at this part. Shepard is part organic. Organic enough to live without the synthetic parts. Which are now inert pieces of metal close to vital organs. We could go a little bit further in this logic train and say that Shepard wont be living much longer after the quick wipe to credits.

That's my supposition. I vote indoctrination theory and a dirty lying catalyst because the game doesnt deserve such horrible writing that didnt get peer reviewed by the rest of the writing staff at Bioware.

Spoilered Transcript with bolded type that is intriguing.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide


Cat: Wake up.
Shep: What? Where am I?
Cat:  The citadel, its my home.
Shep:  Who are you?
Cat:  I am the catalyst.
Shep:  I thought the citadel was the catalyst?
Cat:  No the citadel is a part of me.
Shep:  I need to stop the reapers. Do you know how to do that?
Cat:  The reapers are mine. I control them. They are my solution.
Shep:  Solution? To what?
Cat:  Chaos.  You bring it on yourselves. The created, will always rebel against their creators. But we found a way to stop that from
        happening. A way to restore order for the next cycle.
Shep:  By wiping out organic life?
Cat:  No, we harvest advanced civilizations. Leaving the younger ones alone. Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here.
Shep:  But you killed the rest...
Cat:  We helped them ascend, so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form.
Shep:  I think we'd rather keep our own form.
Cat:  No, you cant. Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics. We've created the cycle so that never happens. That's the
        solution.

Dialogue wheel:
  -- You'll never understand. (chosen option. both merge to same dialogue tree path)
  -- We dont want to be preserved!

Shep:  But you're taking away our future. Without a future we have no hope. Without hope, we might as well be machines. Programmed
          to do what we're told.
Cat:  You dont need hope. The fact that your standing here, the first organic to do so, proves it. But it also proves my solution won't
        work anymore.
Shep:  So now what?
Cat:  That depends on you.
Shep:  What do you mean?
Cat:  The crucible changed me. Created new... possibilities. But I cant make them happen. And I wont.
Shep:  Make what happen?

Destroy Option:

Cat:  What you came here to do. You want to destroy us. You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want, including the geth. Even you are partly synthetic.
Shep: But the reapers will be destroyed?
Cat: Yes, but the peace wont last. Soon your children will create synthetics and the chaos will come back.
Shep: Maybe...

Control Option:

Cat: Or do you think you can control us?
Shep: Huh. So the Illusive Man was right after all.
Cat: Yes. But he could never have taken control... because we already controlled him.
Shep: But I can...
Cat:  You will die. You will control us. But you will lose everything you have.
Shep: But the reapers will obey me?
Cat:  Yes.

Synthesis Option:

Cat:  There is another solution
Shep: Yeah?
Cat: Synthesis...
Shep:  And that is?
Cat: Add your energy to the crucible's. Everything you are will be absorbed, and sent out. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new DNA.
Shep: I... dont know...
Cat: Why not? Synthetics are already apart of you. Can you imagine your life without them?
Shep: And there will be peace?
Cat: The cycle will end. Synthesis is the final evolution of life,
but we need each other to make it happen. You have a difficult decision.

All endings come back to this point.

Cat:  Releasing the energy of the crucible *will* end the cycle. But it will also destroy the mass relays. The paths are open. But you have to chose.




Driskoll

#107
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Quote from: NotoriusBEN on March 18, 2012, 04:59:14 AM
That's my supposition. I vote indoctrination theory and a dirty lying catalyst because the game doesn't deserve such horrible writing that didn't get peer reviewed by the rest of the writing staff at Bioware.

The more I think about the indoctrination theory the more I believe it must be true. The biggest support for me is probably one of the more subtle aspects to the last ten minutes of the game. When the Catalyst presents the choices the player can make, taking control of the reapers is presented in a blue light, symbolizing a paragon action. Alternatively destroying the reapers and all synthetic life is presented in red light, symbolizing a renegade action. Either this is done on purpose to signal to the player that something's wrong here, as I believe, or Bioware as completely lost it.

I can't get over the fact that it's suggesting taking control of the reapers is the right decision, since minutes before my maxed out paragon Shep argued with the Illusive Man that even attempting something like that was wrong. I agree with Shepard's stance that reaper control would give humanity too much power, yet at the end the blue light indicates it is in fact the paragon or "good" option. Is Bioware really telling me that the Illusive Man had it right all along?

I originally thought the synthetic destruction option was presented in red because it would mean destroying the reapers at the cost of committing the genocide of the geth. But part of me just can't accept that the goal Shepard has been working towards is really the "bad" option here. It just seems too cruel to go that far only to find out that stopping the reapers also means destroying an entire race of synthetics, as well as every AI like EDI. As Ben put it, I'm also dubious of the synthesis ending and what that really means for Shepard.

For now, I'm just going to believe in the indoctrination theory until a better explanation comes along or a new ending is released through dlc. I want to believe the rumors that ending the game like this was necessary because of the leak and Bioware intends to fix it, but I'm not sure that I do.   


Chris Brady

My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

SilentGemini

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I have to disagree. My only complaint was that they didn't elaborate on what happens after everything goes down. I would have liked to see what happened to all the individual factions after my final decisions affected them (did all the races live peacefully on Earth, did any of the civilizations manage to build new technology and new Mass Relays) but ultimately, this series is a wartime scenario. Main characters have a tendency to die in them. That and the fact Shepard lasted as long as he did against a scourge of galactic proportions such as the Reapers? You had to figure his luck was going to run out at some point.

I don't remember who said it, but the Crucible did in fact warn Shepard that the Geth would be affected by the destruction of all synthetics. I assumed EDI would be lumped in seeing as she too was a synthetic.

Not saying I wouldn't have preferred a different outcome, but I'm willing to accept this one. All in all, I still love the game and will definitely give it another play through. Just not right now. Been stuck in Mass Effect for almost the last two weeks.

Heaven Sent Blossom

#110
Ultimately I don't care if they rewrite the ending. I've played, read and watched plenty of very good things that ended in a very lackluster manner and I've never felt like I was owed a better ending. I don't really feel like the journey was wasted and I would gladly play a hundred games with endings just as bad, if not worse, than the Mass Effect 3 finale if it meant that the hours of the game before it were as well put together and exciting as it was right up until
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
the penultimate showdown with Captain Anime on the Asari homeworld. I don't like plot armour at the best of times, but something about the terrible Kai Leng character being the one to give me a JRPG moment of my in game actions being rendered invalid by the following cut scene? Yeah that's pretty much where the game really lost me, everything after that was just icing on the shit cake. Although I confess that the storming of Earth drew me back in to make the ending sting a little more than it would have done without that spike of emotion beforehand.
However I really hope they learn a lesson from this, and never repeat the decision to freeze out the rest of the writing staff so the lead writer can apply his "amazing" idea to create "mystery" and "speculation" about the ending.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Heaven Sent Blossom on March 19, 2012, 12:31:03 AM
However I really hope they learn a lesson from this, and never repeat the decision to freeze out the rest of the writing staff so the lead writer can apply his "amazing" idea to create "mystery" and "speculation" about the ending.
Not sure I follow?  What did Bioware do?
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Destiny Ascension

Ah, so the big discussion is here too... heh...

Well, since its ME3 and I've said my fill on the endings on the Bioware forums, all I can say is...

Garrus <3
"Build courage when courage seems to fail, gain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, create hope when hope becomes forlorn."
Andraste's flaming sword! I know where babies come from!

Heaven Sent Blossom

#113
Quote from: Chris Brady on March 19, 2012, 12:40:24 AM
Not sure I follow?  What did Bioware do?

Hudson and Walters set themselves apart from the rest of the writing team to do the ending on their own, which is very different to how the rest of the game was written and the "peer review" system used. If "Final Hours" is to be believed then Hudson and Walters designed the ending to get people talking, in fact there are pictures of a sheet of paper with some ideas hastily scribbled down with the key thing being at the bottom of the page where "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" is written.
There is, of course, no way of knowing for sure that peer review would have saved the ending. However given the overall quality of the game before the nose dive, and the quality of the rest of the series in general, I think it's not the most out their assumption to say that it would have helped a lot.

Enough about that though, I feel more inclined to talk about the awesome things in Mass Effect 3. Specifically the multiplayer and how it is probably the best "horde mode" content I've played so far. After all, what other game lets you do this:

Let's Krogan: Never be better than Commander Shepard

Inkidu

Quote from: Heaven Sent Blossom on March 19, 2012, 04:05:11 AM
Hudson and Walters set themselves apart from the rest of the writing team to do the ending on their own, which is very different to how the rest of the game was written and the "peer review" system used. If "Final Hours" is to be believed then Hudson and Walters designed the ending to get people talking, in fact there are pictures of a sheet of paper with some ideas hastily scribbled down with the key thing being at the bottom of the page where "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" is written.
There is, of course, no way of knowing for sure that peer review would have saved the ending. However given the overall quality of the game before the nose dive, and the quality of the rest of the series in general, I think it's not the most out their assumption to say that it would have helped a lot.

Enough about that though, I feel more inclined to talk about the awesome things in Mass Effect 3. Specifically the multiplayer and how it is probably the best "horde mode" content I've played so far. After all, what other game lets you do this:

Let's Krogan: Never be better than Commander Shepard
I always tell people your writing is never as good or as bad as you think it is until someone else reads it. They definitely could have benefited from some of the other staff's reading of it. That's just rule of thumb as far as I'm concerned.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Heaven Sent Blossom on March 19, 2012, 04:05:11 AM
Hudson and Walters set themselves apart from the rest of the writing team to do the ending on their own, which is very different to how the rest of the game was written and the "peer review" system used. If "Final Hours" is to be believed then Hudson and Walters designed the ending to get people talking, in fact there are pictures of a sheet of paper with some ideas hastily scribbled down with the key thing being at the bottom of the page where "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" is written.
There is, of course, no way of knowing for sure that peer review would have saved the ending. However given the overall quality of the game before the nose dive, and the quality of the rest of the series in general, I think it's not the most out their assumption to say that it would have helped a lot.

Enough about that though, I feel more inclined to talk about the awesome things in Mass Effect 3. Specifically the multiplayer and how it is probably the best "horde mode" content I've played so far. After all, what other game lets you do this:

Let's Krogan: Never be better than Commander Shepard

Well that definitely explains the complete disconnect between the endings and the rest of the story.

Inkidu

If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

#117
Quote from: Inkidu on March 19, 2012, 04:15:50 PM
Here's your silver lining... brought by the darkest cloud I've ever known.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5496-The-Positive-Side-of-Mass-Effect-3s-Ending-Drama

He does sort of miss the point, though. I mean, I'm sure any ending would've gotten some complaints, but the reason ME3's ending has caused such a controversy isn't because the fans are impossible to please. It's because ME3's ending is - dare I say it? - objectively bad. To the extent that any fiction can be objectively bad, ME3's ending is it. It's got more holes than plot, it raises more questions than it answers, and ends a brilliant trilogy with a deus ex machina.

Also, the "Retake Mass Effect" name is quite obviously inspired by the "Take Back Earth" tagline of ME3. Research. It's kinda important.

Edit: If there is to be a silver lining to this - and I'm not certain there will - it will be that BioWare and other developers start taking their fans more seriously, and think twice before discarding a good ending for their acid trip-induced hallucination of a shell of an ending.

Xanatos

He also failed to point out that Mass Effect was all about how Shepards choices effected the galaxy. Neither of the three endings were based in any way in how the player effected his world. Shepard could have destroyed the galaxy for the Reapers and those endings would not have reflected that.

What I see as the bigger problem, though, is that the writers stole the players choices/consequences from them and supplanted inferior, contrived, and cliche options. I can understand a philosophical outlook; however, Mass Effect was never philosophical. It has from day one been based in just about a black and white viewpoint, with a little neutral for those who didn't want all the cool paragon/renegade options. To end the game in a philosophical way totally ruins the feel of the game and defeats the point of such black and white decision making.

It has from day one been about beating the Reapers. Not compromising. Not playing nice. Not joining them. It has been about kicking freaking Reaper ass. Even the goody Paragon is all about kicking Reaper ass. Bioware dropped the ball. I'm not going to bash them. The facts are obvious enough to speak for themselves.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Inkidu on March 19, 2012, 04:15:50 PM
Here's your silver lining... brought by the darkest cloud I've ever known.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5496-The-Positive-Side-of-Mass-Effect-3s-Ending-Drama
That guy is an idiot.  He's seriously stretching, and I think deliberately missing the point.

Like Lost, (now I've not seen any of that series, nor have I played ME3 yet) I get the impression that the ending was just shoved in there with no sense whatsoever to the rest of the narrative until that point. And I'm not talking about the previous games.  The ending was just shoved into the ending block with no sense of continuity.  Like Lost there was no build up, no hinting at what was really or going to happen.

That's a horrible way to write a story.  You need links, hints.  If you're going to have a murder, you need clues and a 'smoking gun'.  That's how people want it.  Throwing a loop never ends well, and just looks sloppy.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

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Hemingway

I just had another thought, regarding the Synthesis ending.

It's said by the Catalyst ( who we now call Casper - after the ghost! ) that synthesis is the "final evolution" of life. Which sounds nice, if you don't think too much about it. Unfortunately, nice though it may sound, it's also impossible. It's just not how evolution works. In order to be the final evolution of anything, you'd have to be perfectly adapted to every situation, which quickly leads to a lot of contradictions. If they didn't mean evolution, they shouldn't have used that word.

If Bioware's goal was to spark speculation, they've done it. Just not in a good way.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 20, 2012, 09:12:39 PM
I just had another thought, regarding the Synthesis ending.

It's said by the Catalyst ( who we now call Casper - after the ghost! ) that synthesis is the "final evolution" of life. Which sounds nice, if you don't think too much about it. Unfortunately, nice though it may sound, it's also impossible. It's just not how evolution works. In order to be the final evolution of anything, you'd have to be perfectly adapted to every situation, which quickly leads to a lot of contradictions. If they didn't mean evolution, they shouldn't have used that word. o

If Bioware's goal was to spark speculation, they've done it. Just not in a good way.
That's not so much a contradiction as it is semantic limitation. Synthesis would be the final stage of evolution in that there would probably be no other great evolution of the synthesis people. They won't evolve wings or become bird snythetic people or something. There would be adaptation obviously, and if evolution is the gaining of adaptations over a long period of time it's easy to see that there would be no next evolutionary breakthrough. However, evolution is just quicker to say.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Cold Heritage

Once you can re-program yourself infinitely and put yourself in any kind of body you want, what other adaptation could you need?
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 21, 2012, 01:17:28 PM
Once you can re-program yourself infinitely and put yourself in any kind of body you want, what other adaptation could you need?
That's a good point. If it turns out like that. They keep it ambiguous.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

#124
Quote from: Inkidu on March 21, 2012, 09:07:06 AMThere would be adaptation obviously, and if evolution is the gaining of adaptations over a long period of time it's easy to see that there would be no next evolutionary breakthrough.

Well, that's exactly what evolution means. If they're adapting, they're evolving. The only way they would avoid that is if there are no longer any mutations going on, which seems to me like a thoroughly undesireable situation. I mean, I don't know what the long-term implications of that are, but I can imagine it would become problematic after a while, what with inbreeding and such taking place at an increasing scale, children being basically clones of their parents. What about resistance to disease? Or will diseases stop evolving, too? Or maybe we're simply immune to them? What about death? Are we now immortal? If not, that kinda sucks - we're stuck with our short lifespans!

Now, even if that's not the case, why would you want to stop adapting? By its very nature, evolution does not have an end point. There can't be a "final evolution". It's just a nonsensical concept.

And even if, at that point, we're all posthuman half-synthetics, capable of rewriting our genetic code at will and adapting to any situation, that doesn't sound like a final evolution at all - quite the contrary! Evolving the ability to evolve at will would just create a new infinity of possibilities.

Edit: As a side note, isn't that a rather sinister idea too? Wouldn't that be eugenics taken to its absolute extreme?

EDIT 2: Well, I'll be....

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 21, 2012, 04:23:09 PM
Well, that's exactly what evolution means. If they're adapting, they're evolving. The only way they would avoid that is if there are no longer any mutations going on, which seems to me like a thoroughly undesireable situation. I mean, I don't know what the long-term implications of that are, but I can imagine it would become problematic after a while, what with inbreeding and such taking place at an increasing scale, children being basically clones of their parents. What about resistance to disease? Or will diseases stop evolving, too? Or maybe we're simply immune to them? What about death? Are we now immortal? If not, that kinda sucks - we're stuck with our short lifespans!

Now, even if that's not the case, why would you want to stop adapting? By its very nature, evolution does not have an end point. There can't be a "final evolution". It's just a nonsensical concept.

And even if, at that point, we're all posthuman half-synthetics, capable of rewriting our genetic code at will and adapting to any situation, that doesn't sound like a final evolution at all - quite the contrary! Evolving the ability to evolve at will would just create a new infinity of possibilities.

Edit: As a side note, isn't that a rather sinister idea too? Wouldn't that be eugenics taken to its absolute extreme?

EDIT 2: Well, I'll be....
Ten bucks says it was already planned and it will cause all these "Retake Mass Effect" shenanigans to go away when the outraged but flighty population of angry fans goes on to other things.

Notice that gamers cave way too easily?
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Also, the BBC article has it wrong.  Fallout 3's ending WAS changed, the DLC was ADDED so they could change it.  Also, Portal 2 was never meant to be made, but fan outpouring and love motivated Valve to do so, so they did, and changed the ending to fit that expectation.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 21, 2012, 09:43:47 PM
Also, the BBC article has it wrong.  Fallout 3's ending WAS changed, the DLC was ADDED so they could change it.  Also, Portal 2 was never meant to be made, but fan outpouring and love motivated Valve to do so, so they did, and changed the ending to fit that expectation.
Actually, I'm not in favor of Fallout 3's ending from a story standpoint. I support it for a gameplay thing, but storywise. Well, ending's themselves provide closure, when you have a totally open ended game you'll eventually find and do everything and then your character won't have any meaning.  They'll just be there, like an automation.

It's more of my philosophy. Honestly, the more I think and look through the endings of ME3, the more I'm okay with them. There are much worse endings.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Cold Heritage

The scary part to me is that you have synthesis bacteria and viruses. Non-living technology could now contract synthesis herpes or you could download synthesis flu onto your omnitool.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Hemingway

Quote from: Cold Heritage on March 21, 2012, 10:15:53 PM
The scary part to me is that you have synthesis bacteria and viruses. Non-living technology could now contract synthesis herpes or you could download synthesis flu onto your omnitool.

Good news for the "family values" folks, I guess.

Laughing Hyena

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Indoctrination theory is a touch more then a theory in my opinion. I have been playing through and am up to the middle part of the game and already I am noticing not only a gradual change in Shepards resolve but as the nightmares become worse and worse Im beginning to see the signs as well. The Rachni Queen warned of the effects. The Oily Shadows are showing up now! And that child, Im damn sure is a nightmarish hallucination meant to create doubt within Shepard. The reapers cannot seem to stop Shepard no matter what as far as killing him and does the impossible uniting enemies against a common cause and they gladly follow Shepard to death itself.

Shepard is perfect for indoctrination!

So in essence I believe and also feel that Bioware planned all that. I have heard about the endings and whilst not there yet I have a feeling Im going to need to stay the course and not give in.

Inkidu

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/9506-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-Controversy

Kind of why I think changing the endings are not only bad, but probably are not going to work.

Also, I don't buy indoctrination theory.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I don't buy it because of three things. Shepard's been in a reaper before, two in point of fact, and it didn't have an effect before. Two, indoctrinated lose higher brain function, and there's never any instance where that appears to happen to Shepard. The main reason though, if Shepard is indoctrinated it doesn't change anything, it's just a spin. The ending is just as--if not more--pointless if he's indoctrinated. The reapers win big whoop. That or it's all made pointless by the, "It's a dream" trope. At least if it's not indoctrination theory then one of the ending's kill the reapers, one renders them obsolete, and the other makes them leave.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from where I stand.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway

I think the main argument against those points would be that, of the little we know about indoctrination, we know it's a subtle process. It becomes more and more difficult to resist the more fully you become indoctrinated, but it's possible to fight it - at least slowing it down. It would be perfectly consistent with the Shepard persona to resist and eventually break free, represented symbolically by the Destroy ending. It's in the early stages, and so, I suppose we can assume, it's possible to resist the effect that hasn't quite taken hold, but it's still difficult, and the Reapers are subtle and manipulative.

Inkidu

Quote from: Hemingway on March 23, 2012, 06:50:09 PM
I think the main argument against those points would be that, of the little we know about indoctrination, we know it's a subtle process. It becomes more and more difficult to resist the more fully you become indoctrinated, but it's possible to fight it - at least slowing it down. It would be perfectly consistent with the Shepard persona to resist and eventually break free, represented symbolically by the Destroy ending. It's in the early stages, and so, I suppose we can assume, it's possible to resist the effect that hasn't quite taken hold, but it's still difficult, and the Reapers are subtle and manipulative.
It's an interesting alternate take, but it doesn't actually change anything. So, I don't know why some anti-ME3-ending people ascribe to it.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Laughing Hyena

#134
Quote from: Inkidu on March 23, 2012, 06:10:02 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/9506-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-Controversy

Kind of why I think changing the endings are not only bad, but probably are not going to work.

Also, I don't buy indoctrination theory.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I don't buy it because of three things. Shepard's been in a reaper before, two in point of fact, and it didn't have an effect before. Two, indoctrinated lose higher brain function, and there's never any instance where that appears to happen to Shepard. The main reason though, if Shepard is indoctrinated it doesn't change anything, it's just a spin. The ending is just as--if not more--pointless if he's indoctrinated. The reapers win big whoop. That or it's all made pointless by the, "It's a dream" trope. At least if it's not indoctrination theory then one of the ending's kill the reapers, one renders them obsolete, and the other makes them leave.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from where I stand.

And now for my counter argument on what you say.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
First of all while it is true that Shepard has been inside a reaper twice over in fact. Indoctrination is more effective when its slow because you get more out of the victim and his lifespan. If Shepard was rapidly indoctrinated the victim would only last up for a week or two under the effects. So this rules the idea that his indoctrination starts at the end of the game is very unlikely. It would have been far too fast. Instead, it begins at the start of the game or possibly before it between Arrival DLC events and the events of ME3. Secondly the loss of brain function occurs at the far end of the indoctrination. True it occurs but as the codex states, this can take months or even years if it's slow. I cannot answer the last reason just yet until I see the ending for myself.

As for why I am ascribing to it before I have not seen the ending myself is because I'm seeing the signs myself before it comes to pass. I questioned why no one saw the boy except for myself nor heard him nor interacted with him. I saw the nightmares and how they slowly grew with time and how Shepard began to lose hope with the battle when he is at the very center of it all, the glue that is meant to hold it all together. I heard the rachni queen describe her indoctrination and how she was able to resist it and had to be physically restrained instead in order to serve their purposes. I saw the oily shadows as she described in their attempts to indoctrinate her and, I heard their horrible sounds within the game. The oily shadows within Shepard's nightmares for me was the biggest hint and made me go 'oh crap'.

I have not gotten to the ending yet and am merely at the half way point but I wanted to share my impressions from what I have found and experienced.

The codex is where I am gathering the information from on the loss of higher brain functions among a few other things.

Mass Effect 3 Indoctrination (Codex)

Inkidu

That's a fair enough interpretation, but remember, the main reason I don't by indoctrination theory, and in my opinion (which when talking narrative counts) at best it changes nothing about the actual ending, and at worst it makes the ending worse (in terms of outlook and tone, not getting into a form or function argument).

Also, it could be argued that it' main detractor is the Shepard/Jesus Allegory. Oh, yeah, it exists. In all the games. The stages of Jesus' life and supposed second coming are right there:

Spoiilered for Series Spoilers

The Prophet: Mass Effect. The reapers they're coming, and no one will listen except a few close followers. Disciples.
The Crucifixion: When he or she is killed by the collector ship.
The Resurrection: Lazarus Project naturally.
The millennium of peace could be seen as any attempt to stop the coming of the reapers and Shepard leave from the navy. It's not really a millennium obviously, but it is in spirit. That's generally the least Cthulhu filled part of the series.

The apocalypse: Yeah, look at Earth, Palaven, and Thesia, the Batarian home world, too.
The End War: Shepard uniting all the "faithful" against the Satan or the reapers in a final epic conclusive war.
The Defeat of the Anti-Christ: Though it doesn't fit the role traditionally. Catalyst is typically the anti-Shepard. Sure he came in in the last seconds, but his role is unmistakable.

The end of the world and the coming of a new age of heaven forever: Well, anyway you cut the three options they basically remove the reapers out of the equation and bring the rest of the world returns to a kind of peace (I mean it's not perfect and eternal probably, but symbolism is there).

Shepard obviously wouldn't really be able to live after something like that not in the traditional mortal sense (even though he she can technically with one ending and enough points). However, the one ending of synthesis, which is the best, but not only fitting ending for the allegory.

So, if you ascribe the allegory the Shepard is incorruptible by "sin" or in this case indoctrination. It's a real downer to have the Jesus allegory lose, especially after so much.

Also, you don't think they picked Shepard out of a hat do you?
   
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

NotoriusBEN

Spoilered is a cohesive argument of shepard's indoctrination in a youtube video. You all can take it as you will, but for me, the only way to come to terms with the horrible writing between casey and mac is this theory. Anything else feels like an injustice to a great sci fi epic.

All aside, I aint purchasing DLC unless it specifically addresses the ending. As it is, the universe has been destroyed by casey and mac unless bioware veto's them and readdresses the ending.

I especially like the ending of the second vid that shows the many questions that all theories must provide for in order to make a coherent argument. So far, the only other theory, ''bad writing'' can account for those questions. Even if that is true, bioware has an out through fan intervention in the indoc theory.


Chris Brady

This link has the article about what an alleged writer for Bioware said about the ending:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

I have no idea if it's truly accurate, or just some pissed off fan who decided to mimic/claim to be one of the writers.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

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NotoriusBEN

I use the PA forums a lot, and I've seen Takayris's comments in passing, but I've never talked to him directly. Yea, he mentioned being a member of the ME3 team and assuming his post was real (I wasnt online when it was posted/removed), provides insight into how the team thinks and feels.

I know I would feel incredibly betrayed by my boss if they just up and did something similar. Well, the lead writer and Casey Hudson got their ''lots of speculation'' and reviews. This month has got to be a low point for those two, but I can forgive them with learning from their mistakes. Just dont expect their credibility to comeback soon.

Hemingway

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 25, 2012, 11:15:48 PM
This link has the article about what an alleged writer for Bioware said about the ending:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

I have no idea if it's truly accurate, or just some pissed off fan who decided to mimic/claim to be one of the writers.

It's fake.

Xanatos

Yeah I had that feeling as well. The biggest reason is supposedly the guy who wrote that is a writer. Yet I couldn't shake the fact that the writing was quite poor and a bit confusing in various parts. I would expect a better post from someone whose job it is to write. Not to mention that many of the points weren't very solid.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Hemingway on March 26, 2012, 11:57:44 AM
It's fake.
Evidence please?

A link would sincerely be appreciated.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 27, 2012, 11:08:03 PM
Evidence please?

A link would sincerely be appreciated.

Well for one thing..

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
there is mention of a good bye to Mordin

NotoriusBEN

#143
it is possible to say goodbye to mordin.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

It however, requires wrex's death, and a few other things.

ME3 Mordin survives

final goodbye
Mass Effect 3 Mordin Final Conversation


Semantics

I'm not sure about the Indoctrination Theory.  On the one hand, it makes far more sense than anything else, because of the numerous plot holes and various other mistakes that arise without it.

On the other, that would, in my opinion, have to mean that they never intended this to be the ending, and right now they're all just acting when they talk about how surprised the reaction is making them, letting the outrage build to a fever-pitch before going, "Gotcha!" and releasing a DLC real ending they always intended.  Which, quite frankly, would make me want to punch them in the face, even if it's free.

Because if the Indoctrination Theory stuff is what they intended, and they didn't plan on releasing anymore ending-related stuff, just more DLC to expand the pre-ending stuff, then...that's actually worse than if the ending just is what it is, in my opinion.  Far, far worse.  Not because of the dark ending impacts, but because it means the ending answers even less.  For all you know it was just a dream and you never left!  [Insert spooky "Ooooo" sounds here.]

So, essentially.  Either the ending is pretty much flat-out horrible on numerous levels, plot wise, logic wise, closure wise, and hey-that's-impossible wise.  Or they sold you a game that didn't even have the ending just so they could screw with your head.  Or they sold you an ending that mostly makes sense, but answers absolutely nothing at all, not even a sliver.

Not exactly a good option among them.

As to my feelings on the ending itself...  They're too long-winded for me to want to post.  I did an...apparently 4,054 word rant in anger to rid myself of it since a friend I usually rant to (and who had apparently spoilered himself to ME3's ending after the controversy began to see what it was about, since he doesn't play the series) wasn't around for me to purge my anger directly to another person.  Suffice to say that I Was Not Amused.

The controversy on if they should or shouldn't change it and artistic integrity and all that, though, has me quite amused, considering there's at least the one big post-release game example, in addition to the fact that numerous people change an artist's vision before it ever sees the light of day, in gaming, television, movies, and books, to varying degrees.  But now apparently video games suddenly loses its controversial Art Card just because ME3 might get its ending changed.

I'm not saying they should.  (I want them to.  At least, I think I do.  I definitely can't sit through that again unless they at least fix the random impossibilities of people showing up where they shouldn't and such.)  They should examine how they feel about the ending and the criticisms directed at it (Especially the biggest criticism I've seen made, I think, the one about how they went back on very specific promises and even seemed proud of it and confused at everyone's outrage) and weigh these things carefully with how much they value their ties with fans and fan support.  Heck, they don't even have to use that to come to a decision.  It's not like artists haven't, as the accusation goes, "sold out"  before.

But between this and Dragon Age 2, two of their last three games have generated huge fan backlash, and if they don't consider things carefully, they might find the good will and trust often given to them by fans suddenly dried up.

Inkidu

At the end of the day fans don't own the creative rights and if we take away a creator's ability to take risks then they should never produce anything again, because it will probably be boring. Risk is what draws you to the thing in the first place. That element of "Hey, I've heard things about this, I'm going to buy it."

It's the gamble, people. You take shot, you put the money, and you bust. It happens in every other medium, but in video games people apparently can demand a recount.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Hemingway


Chris Brady

Odd that Mr. Priestly just said that Mr. Weekes didn't write that.  Not that it was untrue.  It's just weird to me.

Whatever, not like I'll be playing this game anytime soon.  I'll just wait until they bundle it with a small portion of the DLC.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Hemingway

I think you're reading too much into it.

Chris Brady

Probably, but it's still worded in a way that's not a denial.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Xanatos

Quote from: Inkidu on March 28, 2012, 04:50:59 AM
At the end of the day fans don't own the creative rights and if we take away a creator's ability to take risks then they should never produce anything again, because it will probably be boring. Risk is what draws you to the thing in the first place. That element of "Hey, I've heard things about this, I'm going to buy it."

It's the gamble, people. You take shot, you put the money, and you bust. It happens in every other medium, but in video games people apparently can demand a recount.

Normally I would agree. Unfortunately, this argument falls flat in this case. If you applied it to the fan vs. George Lucas debate, then it would work. In the fan vs Bioware case, it can't because Bioware made promises and or made statements that implied certain things, then outright failed to deliver. Fans have the same right to demand a better ending as any customer does demanding a refund/exchange upon returning a defective product that doesn't work as the manufacturer said it would.

There are exceptions to basically anything. This is one of those exceptions.

Chris Brady

And in Video Games developers can change their own endings willy nilly.  And I'm speaking of the Asura's Wrath DLC that just been announced.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Actually, the game does offer a multitude of endings. It all depends on how much you prepare. Not all the endings are good, some are downright depressing. However. It's got more than five, and it's not A, B, or C. So the argument could be. The game has more than those three endings.

At the end of the day it's too difficult to separate the product from the art.

If we accept it as a product and get the changes then in all honesty we have to walk up to the U.S. Supreme Court and ask them to repeal their decision.

If you accept it as art you can't ask them to change the ending.

It's not so cut and dry. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Chris: They have the artistic right, just like George Lucas.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Inkidu on March 28, 2012, 09:49:04 PMChris: They have the artistic right, just like George Lucas.
And so does Bioware.  If Bio feels there is need to appease it's fanbase, whether it's the rabid minority (although a lot of reviews have panned the ending, it's just for them the rest of the game made up for it.  In fact, there are statements going around that most don't play long games for endings, but rather the awesome moments during) they have that right to change the ending.

Same thing applies here.  If we claim that Bio is shouldn't, because it's somehow sacred, then Cyber Connect and George Lucas should also not be allowed.  It doesn't matter what they claim is the reason for the change.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 28, 2012, 09:53:58 PM
And so does Bioware.  If Bio feels there is need to appease it's fanbase, whether it's the rabid minority (although a lot of reviews have panned the ending, it's just for them the rest of the game made up for it.  In fact, there are statements going around that most don't play long games for endings, but rather the awesome moments during) they have that right to change the ending.

Same thing applies here.  If we claim that Bio is shouldn't, because it's somehow sacred, then Cyber Connect and George Lucas should also not be allowed.  It doesn't matter what they claim is the reason for the change.
The creators of an artistic medium should not have to cave to the rabid mob. Think of all the controversy that's been with art. If those artists had given in it would be a good shame. Because of all the hell raised by the vocal portion of the fans any redo would be living under the gloom of fan-pressured change.

The endings don't live up to expectations,  but creators always live under that specter. The problem is that it's not so cut and dry. 
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Xanatos

#155
While again I agree to an extent; you can't compare art to products like video games. Art by its very nature is made to appease the artist first and foremost, fans last. Video games are made to please the fans first and foremost, producers last.

Referring to the fans as rabid is also highly insulting. These days, many intelligent and highly productive and attractive people play video games. Games are not nerdy or socially unacceptable any longer. While, yes, nerds still dominate, its not any different than anything which can be compared to this cultural group (I can't think of anything relevant off the top of my head).


Cold Heritage

I wonder if Inkidu knows about comic books. All those retcons and appeasing fans would blow his mind.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Inkidu

Quote from: Xanatos on March 28, 2012, 10:16:32 PM
While again I agree to an extent; you can't compare art to products like video games. Art by its very nature is made to appease the artist first and foremost, fans last. Video games are made to please the fans first and foremost, producers last.

Referring to the fans as rabid is also highly insulting. These days, many intelligent and highly productive and attractive people play video games. Games are not nerdy or socially unacceptable any longer. While, yes, nerds still dominate, its not any different than anything which can be compared to this cultural group (I can't think of anything relevant off the top of my head).
That's incredibly debatable. Is the writer of a book or poem trying to appease himself before fans? Maybe maybe  not. It's one of those questions of art. Personally, I believe if people don't find art entertaining then it's not. Your audience should always be a factor. You can't say that video games are special, because they're really not. Do people have fun playing them? Yes, but you can't look me in the eye and tell me that the developer of Heavy Rain was thinking of the audience first. It's just not that simple. I'm just using Chris Brady's word on the rabid thing. I was referring to his rabid minority without repeating the statement completely.

Ultimately if you can't except that it's not that easy there are two choices. Accept it as an art, or a product.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Semantics

Quote from: Inkidu on March 28, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
Actually, the game does offer a multitude of endings. It all depends on how much you prepare. Not all the endings are good, some are downright depressing. However. It's got more than five, and it's not A, B, or C. So the argument could be. The game has more than those three endings.

That works for the A, B, and C quote.  But I think we can all agree that the endings do not "diverge into wildly different conclusions based on the players actions in the first two chapters."  If he had just said, "diverge wildly" then you could...I guess argue that if you imagine all the parts they didn't show you, it does, you just don't know how for certain, because they didn't show you.  But the actions of the first two games really have minimal effect if any, especially if you play a bit of multiplayer to beef up your final military rating.  There is nothing in either of the previous two games that directly effects the ending.  Heck, there's no choice in the game the ending is for that directly effects the ending, except the choice of the ending.

Or the promise that they wouldn't "pull a Lost" and leave more questions than answers.  The ending was pretty much the definition of leaving more questions than answers, and after the release the director, Hudson, was actually proud that it did, explicitly stating they really wanted to do something with the ending on the opposite side of the promises about what they were going to do with the ending pre-release.

Again, not saying that this means they should.  If I turn on the T.V. and watch one commercial break, I'll be lied to at least five times.  Companies do it.  But even if you say, "The very minor distinctions make it so that there are more than just A, B, and C," it's pretty hard to argue they kept their word on the others.  And that's without really digging for quotes, myself.

Xanatos

#159
Quote from: InkiduThat's incredibly debatable. Is the writer of a book or poem trying to appease himself before fans? Maybe maybe  not. It's one of those questions of art. Personally, I believe if people don't find art entertaining then it's not. Your audience should always be a factor. You can't say that video games are special, because they're really not. Do people have fun playing them? Yes, but you can't look me in the eye and tell me that the developer of Heavy Rain was thinking of the audience first. It's just not that simple. I'm just using Chris Brady's word on the rabid thing. I was referring to his rabid minority without repeating the statement completely.

Ultimately if you can't except that it's not that easy there are two choices. Accept it as an art, or a product.

You, I dare say, don't know much about art. Artists, the vast majority, don't give a damn about what people think about their work. Some may try and conform, but only to survive as an artist if its a career choice/option. Most artists actually fight against public opinion to become accepted. Look at the surrealists, abstract artists, and so forth. Each and every one of them had to fight for acceptance, and in some cases, still do. Artists create art which is meaningful to them. Artists are taught not to let people's opinions deter them. Art has and always will be, a deeply personal endeavor for the artist. Art is not about pleasing others - that is merely a bi-product. Commercial art is an anomaly created by businesses only interested in profit. Businesses don't care about what art is about - they see it only as a means to profit.

Your looking into the point too hard and pulling threads which aren't really relevant. And yes I can look you in the eye. Game developers work for a living. They make games to please an audience. That does not preclude self-satisfaction. However, a developer would be foolish to make a game that just pleased itself. Its one thing to make something for ones self, then decide to try and sell it. Its another thing entirely to come at a product made with the express intent to be sold to the public, with the attitude of making it in a way only the producers can enjoy it.

In no way was Mass Effect I a game designed for Bioware and then released to the public on a whim. It was a strategic risk they knew could or would not succeed. They melded two distinct and successful game types into one and then put it out for public consumption. They were not doing it to please themselves. That is not how business works. It can be apart of the overall tactic, sure, but its only a peripheral - the core is pleasing the customer. Ask any businessman. Its why customer service is so dreaded by most who work in it. Customers first, everyone else second and dead last.

Edit: they actually melded 3, RPG, shooter, and sci-fi. Up until that point, most RPG's were fantasy or miscellaneous genre's. They still are.

Inkidu

It's not about conformity or fighting against the norm. If no one appreciates your art or finds it interesting then it's not art. Art deals with the conditions and experiences of being human. If there's no one to share it with you've simply indulged in what Byron called, "mental masturbation' It might be self satisfying, but it ain't sex. Good art is sex. Other people are involved. You can say I don't know anything about art, and you'd be wrong, but you're over-simplifying it.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

As long as game companies continue to make DLC for their games, they are not art.  The very nature of DLC changes the game, every time they do it.

And Bio (in this case) have stated, even befor this whole ending affair, intended for extra content.  In fact there's already some.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 29, 2012, 03:02:28 AM
As long as game companies continue to make DLC for their games, they are not art.  The very nature of DLC changes the game, every time they do it.

And Bio (in this case) have stated, even befor this whole ending affair, intended for extra content.  In fact there's already some.
I don't see the logic behind that. Lucas diddles with his movies all the time and sells you the remastered product. That hasn't invalidated them as film (well unless you're one of those fans, I guess).

Authors have released alternate endings to books, just because they've thought about it. That doesn't invalidate the work as art.

I mean if you think it's because it's greed that that doesn't make it art that's not true either. Art comes in degrees.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

But...  Look, you just said that changing the story invalidates it as 'art'.  And Lucas' additions to his own works is the very same thing.  it doesn't matter how or where he got the idea to do so, just that he DID.  Same thing applies here.

Mass Effect 2 got quite a bit of DLC, which (according to players) actually changes the beginning of ME3 (as in you find out why the ship and crew got disbanded) but if you didn't get Shadow Broker and/or Arrival, you're missing key elements of the story.  That's pretty big right there.

So, no.  Maybe you think differently, but as long as game companies put out DLC for their games, then games will never be 'art'.  Art is a standalone project, designed primarily for personal gratification.  If you need to change it, then obviously you're not satisfied with it.

And I'm going to repeat what people have said the internet over, the Mass Effect series has been designed around the choices that YOU as a player.  Everything you did was shown in some fashion in the game.  ME3's Deus Ex: Human Revolution choice for the ending pretty much invalidates the 100+ hours you, the player, invested in that game.  Another thing that invalidates games as art.  Art is for the artist, games are for the general public to enjoy.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 29, 2012, 01:15:28 PM
But...  Look, you just said that changing the story invalidates it as 'art'.  And Lucas' additions to his own works is the very same thing.  it doesn't matter how or where he got the idea to do so, just that he DID.  Same thing applies here.

Mass Effect 2 got quite a bit of DLC, which (according to players) actually changes the beginning of ME3 (as in you find out why the ship and crew got disbanded) but if you didn't get Shadow Broker and/or Arrival, you're missing key elements of the story.  That's pretty big right there.

So, no.  Maybe you think differently, but as long as game companies put out DLC for their games, then games will never be 'art'.  Art is a standalone project, designed primarily for personal gratification.  If you need to change it, then obviously you're not satisfied with it.

And I'm going to repeat what people have said the internet over, the Mass Effect series has been designed around the choices that YOU as a player.  Everything you did was shown in some fashion in the game.  ME3's Deus Ex: Human Revolution choice for the ending pretty much invalidates the 100+ hours you, the player, invested in that game.  Another thing that invalidates games as art.  Art is for the artist, games are for the general public to enjoy.
That's called interactive art. You can't get mad at the company for not giving you as much  as you want. My point is there's a difference between the crowd demanding that an artist doing or changing something, and the artist deciding to do it themselves.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Interactive art?  Never heard of it, huhn.

OK, you want to talk art, fine.  Think of ME3 being a commissioned pieced by us the consumer.  If the commission is not up to what we want, we have every right to ask for changes.  After all WE PAID FOR IT.

This is the closest to art you can argue a video game is.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 29, 2012, 08:10:58 PM
Interactive art?  Never heard of it, huhn.

OK, you want to talk art, fine.  Think of ME3 being a commissioned pieced by us the consumer.  If the commission is not up to what we want, we have every right to ask for changes.  After all WE PAID FOR IT.

This is the closest to art you can argue a video game is.
Yes, and if it had actually been commissioned the fans would have rights, however, the only people with the rights to bring it up is EA. The fans didn't commission it they paid for the finished product.

Tell me which fan put up the probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to make Mass Effect 3?
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Inkidu on March 29, 2012, 08:13:22 PM
Yes, and if it had actually been commissioned the fans would have rights, however, the only people with the rights to bring it up is EA. The fans didn't commission it they paid for the finished product.

Tell me which fan put up the probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to make Mass Effect 3?

According to Bioware?  All of them.  At 60 bucks a pop.  EA just publishes, they do not have any pull as to how the game is made, just that the game is made.  And that it's profitable.  The more it is (Call of Duty for example) the more they are willing to help the devs.

All EA does, in effect, is give them the canvas, paints, pencils for Bioware to make the art.  And they get a dividend based on the contract.  EA makes one demand, if it can.  Do it on time.  And even then, they can be flexible on that.

This is a commission piece for the fans by Bioware. they have stressed it multiple times that this is 'YOUR' game.  And some of these fans, at last count, just want closure.  They are not making any more demands than that.  All they want is an ending that reflects their choices in the last three games, and an ending that FEELS like one.  No one is reasonably asking for more than that.

I'm not sure why this upsets you.  This is a commission, not a Picasso.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Geeklet

Quote from: Xanatos on March 28, 2012, 09:10:06 PM
Fans have the same right to demand a better ending as any customer does demanding a refund/exchange upon returning a defective product that doesn't work as the manufacturer said it would.

Next time you go to the movie theater, ask for your money back after the film because you didn't like the ending, or it didn't turn out how you thought, and see what kind of reaction you'd get.

I get that some people are mad about the ending. Personally, I don't think it is as bad as the internet has blown it out of proportion to be. In the end, though, is getting upset over a video game really worth this kind of argument?

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on March 29, 2012, 09:48:30 PM
According to Bioware?  All of them.  At 60 bucks a pop.  EA just publishes, they do not have any pull as to how the game is made, just that the game is made.  And that it's profitable.  The more it is (Call of Duty for example) the more they are willing to help the devs.

All EA does, in effect, is give them the canvas, paints, pencils for Bioware to make the art.  And they get a dividend based on the contract.  EA makes one demand, if it can.  Do it on time.  And even then, they can be flexible on that.

This is a commission piece for the fans by Bioware. they have stressed it multiple times that this is 'YOUR' game.  And some of these fans, at last count, just want closure.  They are not making any more demands than that.  All they want is an ending that reflects their choices in the last three games, and an ending that FEELS like one.  No one is reasonably asking for more than that.

I'm not sure why this upsets you.  This is a commission, not a Picasso.
Do you understand what it means to commission something? It means you put up the money up front to have someone make something for your. No Mass Effect fan did that. EA did that. They payed for Bioware's pencils, paper, and paints, and expected them to make a game that turnst a profit. They're the commissioner. You said so yourself. 

When BioWare says they're making it "your game" they mean they've put in a lot of options for players to express themselves (interactive art). This fact does not give them creative rights to the work. They don't own it in the least. That's a big thing with WRPGs the empowerment through fantasy (as opposed the more narrative-driven JRPG). That doesn't mean BioWare is saying, "Hey fans, you get a slice of this sweet commission, too." They're saying, "Hey, come enjoy what we've created."

What you're saying is essentially the same as the person a book is dedicated to gets a portion of the rights. It's just not true.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for expanding on the ending with other content, but I'm against changing the ending. You can provide closer without a rewrite.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Inkidu on March 29, 2012, 11:07:23 PM
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for expanding on the ending with other content, but I'm against changing the ending. You can provide closer without a rewrite.

But that's just it.  Even by expanding it you are CHANGING it from what it was.  So in the end we were arguing the same side of the fence!

Also, I think that's what everyone wants.  Something more than what they got.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

#171
Quote from: Chris Brady on March 29, 2012, 11:51:17 PM
But that's just it.  Even by expanding it you are CHANGING it from what it was.  So in the end we were arguing the same side of the fence!

Also, I think that's what everyone wants.  Something more than what they got.
No, from what I gathered that was an outright cry to change what happened to Shepard in one way or another. What I'm calling for is basically over-glorified ending slides. Shepard still gets A, B, C, but now you know what happens to everyone else, but maybe stop before you get to revealing anything about the ultimate ending, you know the last image, to preserve some of the mystique.

Don't change what happens to Shepard. That's the ending I'm preserving and honestly, it's where a lot of the hate is directed.

Edit: Actually, you know what? Now that you've made me think about it I don't want expansion. Because I've got my closure. I'm reasonably able to draw conclusions from what my Shepard has done, suffered through, and challenged. I know what happens to the galaxy I leave behind. So, nope I'm good. Take expansion off the table for me. It works. Sure there's a few unanswered questions, but I'm going to rely on myself for this one.

Damn that was smart. For a people of a medium  that complains about getting spoon-fed gameplay mechanics they sure want their story spoon-fed. Anyway, that's a personal observation.

Thanks, Chris. You've helped me nail down the last bit of nagging questions.

If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Well, if I understand the PR double talk from Bioware, I am thinking that the expanded content will be DLC and will likely be optional.

I could of course be wrong.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming


Chris Brady

I guess I'm not.  And even better it'll be free and expand on the endings, not touching anything in game.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Callie Del Noire

I just wanted my FemShepard to go find a little planet somewhere to settled down and have little blue babies on. :D

Solstice

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on April 05, 2012, 01:47:44 PM
I just wanted my FemShepard to go find a little planet somewhere to settled down and have little blue babies on. :D

I know, right? :z
Apoloies & Absences - Updated 11/16/2014 - Around and available? Hopefully?

Erato

I kept hoping Liara would take some of Shepherd's DNA and just get preggers so she'd have a Shep baby if he/she died.

I seduced Garrus though. Who can resist that hot Turian tail!?
In the game of chess the Queen protects the King.

Geeklet

I can resist it. Had to stay faithful to Liara. I think it kinda worked out better in the end, anyway, since:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Garrus and Tali do make a cute couple.

SinXAzgard21

I just wanted a decent ending.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Cold Heritage

I never felt the appeal of the Turians, myself.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Erato

I did play as a guy once just to hook up with Tali. I never pick the human. :)
In the game of chess the Queen protects the King.

Sasquatch421

And here I have yet to finish Mass Effect 2...

Laughing Hyena

And just to be different.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Catalyst: What is your name?
Shep: Commander Shepard.
Catalyst: What is your quest?
Shep: To destroy the Reapers.
Catalyst: What is your favorite color?
Shep: Green. No re- AGGGGGHHHH!!!

Semantics

Quote from: Laughing Hyena on April 17, 2012, 01:18:10 AM
And just to be different.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Catalyst: What is your name?
Shep: Commander Shepard.
Catalyst: What is your quest?
Shep: To destroy the Reapers.
Catalyst: What is your favorite color?
Shep: Green. No re- AGGGGGHHHH!!!

So thaaaaaat's what happened.  Makes much more sense now.

I had trouble formulating and typing that, because I cannot look directly at your words lest I start fighting back chortles and laughs.  Good show.

Rex Pacis

Just beat it today......the ending didn't bother me too much. Maybe I'm missing something?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The catalyst looked like that kid cause it was responding to Shepard's brain patterns I guess. A machine would not care about "humanely" putting down what it deemed chaos it would do it in the most efficient manner i.e. The Reapers. I got the ending where organic and synthetic life are joined and yea maybe it is a bit comic booky but the crucible was that "X" factor so what if it also had the power of God. xD I think people are not giving the next evolution of life much credit if they actually think they are going to die off because the mass effect relays were destroyed. They can all hypothetically have the knowledge of a Reaper inside them so they will rebuild. Even in the other endings there is still hope. At that point life has fought off a system made to efficiently destroy them you think they are just going to call it quits? They all know about Mass Effect/Relay technology and how it used to be. Give them some credit. A little more closure would have been nice but I don't see the need for all the rage. They pretty much told you Shep was going to die. To me the only question is who built the Citadel if the Reapers were built by the Catalyst or is the Catalyst an extension of the Reaper sentience?
"We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils."

TyKing

I hated the endings. I felt cheated and I think Bioware owes me a different option. I'm not saying this because I feel entitled but because I've supported them through the entire trilogy, buying ALL of their games and ALL of their DLC. I've dropped some serious cash for the product and I believe I have a right to be dissatisfied with what I received. If you think about it in terms of consumerism, if so many people had been displeased with a product from any other sector of our economy, there would have been a recall of the product and consumers would have been compensated for it. If I could have gotten a complete refund I would have gladly taken that game back to Gamestop. But I can't do that because the gaming industry doesn't think consumer norms should apply to them. And Gamestop is Babylon, but we knew this.

Inkidu

Quote from: TyKing on April 18, 2012, 08:15:09 AM
I hated the endings. I felt cheated and I think Bioware owes me a different option. I'm not saying this because I feel entitled but because I've supported them through the entire trilogy, buying ALL of their games and ALL of their DLC. I've dropped some serious cash for the product and I believe I have a right to be dissatisfied with what I received. If you think about it in terms of consumerism, if so many people had been displeased with a product from any other sector of our economy, there would have been a recall of the product and consumers would have been compensated for it. If I could have gotten a complete refund I would have gladly taken that game back to Gamestop. But I can't do that because the gaming industry doesn't think consumer norms should apply to them. And Gamestop is Babylon, but we knew this.
Yeah... no. Try getting a full refund for a book whose ending you don't like, despite liking the series prior. It's not going to happen. Same principle.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

TyKing

Books, games and music all fall into the same category. So your statement doesn't work but at least try and think about it from another perspective rather than immediately slamming me.

Inkidu

#189
Quote from: TyKing on April 18, 2012, 08:28:35 AM
Books, games and music all fall into the same category. So your statement doesn't work but at least try and think about it from another perspective rather than immediately slamming me.
How does it not work? It works fine. You can't ask for your money back when a movie sucks, you can't demand that an artist change the song because you don't like it (well, you could, but again good luck), and you can't demand your money back from an author because the ending blows.

The obvious is that it's subjective. I like the ending to ME3 because it leaves so much of what happens up to my imagination and doesn't have to spoon feed me every ounce of closure. More than just being subjective is that it's art. You pay to take the risk on something, and if you don't get your money tough. However, art works on risk. We all like our franchises but what about that first initial purchase. No matter how much research you do there's always that element of risk involved. It's why there are fans in the first place.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Rex Pacis

So just cause you didn't like the endings you feel cheated? You wouldn't have supported them to this point if you did not enjoy the product right? I don't think any of us can say ME 3 was a bad game, gameplay and story-wise regardless of the ending they chose to go with.

I bought all the DLC, which is more then skins and map packs thank you Bioware. And if Shepard and Harbringer high-fived and sailed off into the Sun as pals randomly cause Harbringer and the other Reapers had a "change of programming" then yea I would have been pissed too but it would not devalue the rest of the experience to me. Lair of the Shadow Broker was great and I rather enjoyed the Kasumi mission myself and the character. I only missed the DLC for ME 1 cause I never owned it. It would get a big asterisk with the skipping pals ending but everything else up to that point was pretty great IMHO.

Anywho to go with an old trend I thought was pretty cool.

Rick Shepard was an Earthborn orphan who took to a life a crime early before the Alliance offered him an exit from the gang life. Early on in his military career Shepard and his fellow soldiers found themselves in an impossible situation surrounded by Batarian slavers on Elysium. Shepard risked everything to save what was left of his squad practically holding off the slavers single-handed, earning himself medals and recognition along the way and entry into the N7 program. Contrary to his upbringing, as his reputation and influence grew Shepard always held to a rather strong sense of justice sparing who he could when he could but not afraid to pull the trigger when he felt the need. A vanguard of the paragon with just a splash of renegade was how he was described by some. This showed in his style of battle as he bravely charged his enemies head on with only his Scorpion, Geth Shotgun, a desperate will to live, and faith in his barriers since he rarely touched his medigel. He firmly believes that the only way to stop the Reapers is for all life to stand against them as one. He has seen the advantages each race can bring in the melting pot that he lovingly calls Normandy and will fight to his last breath to protect them and it. Now if only the rest of the galaxy would get its act together he might have a chance to settle down with the lovely Miss Lawson since Commander Williams turned her back on him when he was with Cerberus. A genetically made woman, that can't bear children, whose mate is one of the greatest soldiers the galaxy has ever seen. They can't have kids you say? Solid Shepard says....itch please!
"We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils."

Rex Pacis

I wish I had my editing power so sorry for the double post. As far as gameplay I'm not talking about the boatload of bugs because believe me they frustrate me too but ME has evolved mechanics-wise with everyone that came out. The core was still there, typical Bioware game, but the combat rolls and melee revamp changed the game-play drastically especially for someone playing Vanguard for example. That is not even mentioning the set-pieces of having a damn Reaper in the background while you try to take out a Banshee or Brute. It might have gone out with a fizzle in some people's opinion but it had a steady boom throughout I think.
"We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils."

Geeklet

Quote from: TyKing on April 18, 2012, 08:15:09 AM
If you think about it in terms of consumerism, if so many people had been displeased with a product from any other sector of our economy, there would have been a recall of the product and consumers would have been compensated for it.

Show me one product that was RECALLED due to customers not enjoying it. I've only seen a recall on items found defective (a part not working the way it should in cars, salmonella found in a certain batch of food, a choking hazard on a child's toy, etc.). The scenario you describe, if someone is displeased with a product, sometimes refunds are available, sometimes not, but usually, if you don't see the product any more, its because consumers have spoken with their wallets, and not purchased it anymore.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Geeklet on April 18, 2012, 01:32:35 PM
Show me one product that was RECALLED due to customers not enjoying it. I've only seen a recall on items found defective (a part not working the way it should in cars, salmonella found in a certain batch of food, a choking hazard on a child's toy, etc.). The scenario you describe, if someone is displeased with a product, sometimes refunds are available, sometimes not, but usually, if you don't see the product any more, its because consumers have spoken with their wallets, and not purchased it anymore.

You know.. show me one piece of software that has been recalled. I think software, in general not specifically ME3, has gotten more and more buggy over the years and I have to wonder how much damage has been done by buggy software.

Well.. my wandering off on a tangent done... anyone know if they added anything to the SINGLE player game with the new DLC?

TyKing

Quote from: Inkidu on April 18, 2012, 08:47:11 AM
How does it not work? It works fine. You can't ask for your money back when a movie sucks, you can't demand that an artist change the song because you don't like it (well, you could, but again good luck), and you can't demand your money back from an author because the ending blows.

The obvious is that it's subjective. I like the ending to ME3 because it leaves so much of what happens up to my imagination and doesn't have to spoon feed me every ounce of closure. More than just being subjective is that it's art. You pay to take the risk on something, and if you don't get your money tough. However, art works on risk. We all like our franchises but what about that first initial purchase. No matter how much research you do there's always that element of risk involved. It's why there are fans in the first place.

Who says you can't ask for your money back if a movie sucks? I have. I've walked out of movies that have sucked (after the first ten minutes, I didn't stay and watch the entire thing) and demanded a refund and was given my money or given free tickets to another.

Books, music and games all are sold with the idea that there's no refunds because by playing them, breaking the furrow or tearing off their shiny wrappers their value has degraded. So asking for a refund for a book would be like asking for a refund for a game because it doesn't have the 'newness' of another. But I don't think that's true because games look they same no matter what and if they're in mint condition they are just as valuable as the one on the shelf. The only one who is telling you it isn't is the industry who doesn't want to give you a full refund for a game if you are dissatisfied.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not up their every time trying to get my money back on every game I dislike because of awful mechanics or too many bugs or because the content failed to live up to my expectations. If that was the case I'd never buy a Bethesda game ever again. But as a consumer I have the right to say, 'This product didn't deliver an enjoyable experience. It didn't deliver the RPG experience it promised. The ending was terrible and I would like to see some more options.' I have the right to tell Bioware that and so do any others who felt the same and supported them from ME1, hell anyone who bought the game can say that. I didn't expect there to be DLC to change the ending but I'm glad there is. I'm glad Bioware and EA have the decency to realize some folks weren't pleased and they are attempting to make that right with consumers.

Isn't that the type of world we all want to live in? Where we have some say and aren't just expected to take everything and pay hard earned cash for a product we aren't satisfied with? I don't know about anyone else but I work damn hard for my pay and I'm not going to just give it up for a product, game or otherwise, where I feel I receive less than what I paid for it. I can appreciate the 'art for the sake of art' argument but even artists know where their patronage originates and play, paint etc towards their audiences. If they didn't, most of the great works of art from the Renaissance and the folowing periods wouldn't exist.

You're part of the group who liked the ending, that's fine with me. I can accept your POV about why you liked it. I find there's a tendency among people who liked the ending of ME3 to run-down or try and malign fans who didn't. I don't know why that is. I've had people say 'well it's war it can't be all puppies and daisies..' I didn't ask for a puppy or a daisy.     

Destiny Ascension

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on April 18, 2012, 02:30:28 PM
Well.. my wandering off on a tangent done... anyone know if they added anything to the SINGLE player game with the new DLC?

Speaking of the Resurgence 'expansion'? Nothing to the single player, so far as I'm aware, all that was added were new multiplayer characters, new weapons and new maps. And I think a couple of weapon mods.
"Build courage when courage seems to fail, gain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, create hope when hope becomes forlorn."
Andraste's flaming sword! I know where babies come from!

Geeklet

Quote from: TyKing on April 18, 2012, 04:07:23 PM
Who says you can't ask for your money back if a movie sucks? I have. I've walked out of movies that have sucked (after the first ten minutes, I didn't stay and watch the entire thing) and demanded a refund and was given my money or given free tickets to another.

I think there is a difference between the situation you describe, and sitting through an entire movie, only to wait and ask for a refund after it was over.

Inkidu

Quote from: Geeklet on April 18, 2012, 04:37:52 PM
I think there is a difference between the situation you describe, and sitting through an entire movie, only to wait and ask for a refund after it was over.
That or they're nice people. They're are not obligated in any way to provide a refund with customers dissatisfied with the movie they show. Maybe it's the theater's policy?
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Geeklet


Rex Pacis

Quote from: Destiny Ascension on April 18, 2012, 04:24:57 PM
Speaking of the Resurgence 'expansion'? Nothing to the single player, so far as I'm aware, all that was added were new multiplayer characters, new weapons and new maps. And I think a couple of weapon mods.

The only other thing I have heard about, speaking of the ending, is this Extended Cut thing.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_Extended_Cut

I doubt it will add any new squad members or missions but because people were pissed it it is supposed to provide "closure" on Shepard's story.
"We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils."

Chris Brady

You know, TyKing has a good point.  He didn't like the ending.  He feels cheated.  And that's entirely fair.  Hell, there are books I threw away because I hated the way they ended.  I too felt cheated or upset.  And so I showed my discontent by getting rid of them (thank God for cheap paperbacks. :P)

Hell, there are entire anime series in which was awesome until the last episode or even halfway, and I stopped collecting them or got rid of them (by gifting them to friends who did like them, or by selling them to interested parties on the internet, well, I only did that once, and it was pre-Ebay.)

You can express discontent.  And he did.  Just because one doesn't agree with him is no reason to jump down his throat...
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on April 18, 2012, 07:17:32 PM
You know, TyKing has a good point.  He didn't like the ending.  He feels cheated.  And that's entirely fair.  Hell, there are books I threw away because I hated the way they ended.  I too felt cheated or upset.  And so I showed my discontent by getting rid of them (thank God for cheap paperbacks. :P)

Hell, there are entire anime series in which was awesome until the last episode or even halfway, and I stopped collecting them or got rid of them (by gifting them to friends who did like them, or by selling them to interested parties on the internet, well, I only did that once, and it was pre-Ebay.)

You can express discontent.  And he did.  Just because one doesn't agree with him is no reason to jump down his throat...
There's a difference in expressing your discontent and then expecting some kind of reparation because you bought their product before, in dictating what you think you're owed. It's not like the product is malfunctioning, but seeking reparations for not liking something is a fool's errand.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

SinXAzgard21

At the end of the day it is a video game... Some people just take shit way to seriously.  You bought it, deal with it.  Trade the damn thing in if you don't like it. The thread has went from ME3 to feeling cheated and wanting something to be fixed, get back on topic or make a thread about being cheated.

I've not played MP on my ps3, anyone playing ps3 side know if it is worth actually playing?
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Laughing Hyena

I play it all the damn time. For something so simplistic it is incredibly decent. And it is amazingly hard, especially on gold difficulty. So to me it is definitely worth playing.

SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Laughing Hyena on April 20, 2012, 05:25:15 AM
I play it all the damn time. For something so simplistic it is incredibly decent. And it is amazingly hard, especially on gold difficulty. So to me it is definitely worth playing.

Thanks, just needed to hear that it was worth playing from a acceptable source, instead of a mass trolled on forum.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Amy Liz

Try going infiltrator + geth shotgun, it's absurdly overpowered ;)

Chris Brady

From what I heard the infiltrator is the class to play.  It makes the game easier.

According to what I heard.  I could, of course, be wrong.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Amy Liz

It's very fun. Adept is pretty much OP too with the stasis bubble.

Inkidu

Quote from: Chris Brady on April 20, 2012, 02:13:51 PM
From what I heard the infiltrator is the class to play.  It makes the game easier.

According to what I heard.  I could, of course, be wrong.
I liked the the Viper, the Hand Cannon, and the Tempest with the clip recycling mod and the lightweight mod. I was able to through around a lot of cryo ammo and cloak in and out.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Laughing Hyena

No way. I play as a human sentinel and it is beastly. I just ignore tech armor and go full on biotic explosions with warp and throw. Drops almost anything in one shot. Pure stopping power. Warp and Throw and instant death.

Amy Liz


Inkidu

Plus the boom-shield. That thing is a murderer. Plus two omni blades!  I played sentinel my first go through. Epic!
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Rex Pacis

I played Vanguard in the SP so when I went to MP I wanted to try the different classes. I haven't tried Gold yet since my weapons are crap but in Silver I've tried it a bit but I'm liking the Batarian soldier and the Krogan sentinel cause the melees are beast. I pretty much tank for my team especially with a blood raged Krogan who isn't afraid to backhand an atlas or brute when they're breaching the camp. Though the Geth Engineer has been my favorite so far cause the turret and hunter mode together are a pretty good combo. Throw a turret up then go flank the enemy...gets them every time. Now if only I could get my hands on a Locust SMG or a Geth shottie then my arsenal can start to keep up. Though I just unlocked my Krogan battlemaster so I'm salivating a bit on getting him going....a krogan with biotic charge..awesome.

Infiltrators annihilate I'm sure with the right gun. My third playthrough, that I'll probably never finish, was gonna be an infiltrator and that boost you get in damage from coming out of the cloak was pretty monstrous. I had not even begun to evolve the powers at the point I was playing and I was stunned.

Though yea I'm gonna fifth this, Sin, MP is a lot of fun even more so if you have three friends I'm sure. I was playing a Bronze match with three other Krogans, the people were random, and lets just say those poor Cerberus guys did not stand a chance. Those Krogan were sending bodies every where and then they would headbutt each other in celebration. Good times. : )
"We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils."

Laughing Hyena

Quote from: Liz on April 20, 2012, 06:02:52 PM
In silver and gold too?

VERY effective on gold and silver also. I have my sentinel set up like this and I'll note the evolutions.

Tech Armor: (0)
Warp: (6) I chose Detonate, Expose, and Pierce
Throw: (6) I chose Radius, Detonate and Force/Damage
Training: (6) Damage/Capacity, Power, Weight
Fitness: (6) Durability, Shield Recharge, Fitness Expert

Warp: [Recharge - 2.63 sec] [Duration: 10 sec] [Damage - 387.50]
Throw: [Recharge - 1.31 sec] [Force - 1290 N] [Damage - 270]

This build gives the best health/shields and recharge along with the best capacity. With this built you can theoretically carry a Phalanx and a Hornet with Superlight Alloys and remain at 200% cool down just in case you need to shoot. However the main mantra is to never need to fire a shot. It's all about the biotics and the strength behind them.

To elaborate I chose Detonate for both Warp and Throw. The idea is that both features stack and cause a better biotic explosion. All force and damage of the explosion are at 100%. This will immediately drop any of the enemies that have shields and armor down to health or whatever they have as well as the remaining enemies around them. This sets them up for a quick throw or a few rounds to the head to quickly kill them.

The amount of damage and force is staggering easily doing 1000 damage with the explosion and with the amount of time being under four seconds to throw both warp and throw with a radius effect to better trigger the detonation on throw. In a pinch with weak enemies you can spam throw with impunity at under one and a half seconds and with the radius effect you stop more then one enemy.

Against stronger enemies like the hunters, pyros, atlas, brutes or banshees, this takes down three to four bars of armor, obliterates shields and stops them from recovering and again it will kill surrounding enemies nearby the target. The key is high damage and crowd control and this is one of the best builds for it.

Amy Liz


SinXAzgard21

Man I'd love to play multiplayer or even solo but when it is stuck at connecting to EA servers for 10 minutes it isn't even worth it anymore.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Laughing Hyena

Just reset the game. Sometimes it gets a hiccup or the servers on EA are down or taxed.

Cold Heritage

Just watched the Extended Cut endings. Gotta say they were pretty great. Really a lot more fitting end to the trilogy than the originals.
Thank you, fellow Elliquiyan, and have a wonderful day.

Chris Brady

They added a fourth ending from what I heard.  And it seems that 'indoctrination theory' may be getting more fuel because of it.  Not having seen any of them, I can't say, but the internet gaming sites are a buzz with it.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Laughing Hyena

Well it certainly looks even stranger with the rumored Leviathan DLC and so forth. People have found scripts of the DLC and found out what it entails. From what i have seen of it my guess is...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Leviathan is an actual Reaper that has turned traitor against its own kind. As to the how's and why's I cannot even begin to tell you because I don't know how to take that. Not even sure if I believe it after seeing that script.

Geeklet

So I went onto youtube and viewed the new endings.... And all I can really say is... Meh.

Personally, I still like the original ending, and the vagueness of it, as well as the original indoctrination theory.

Inkidu

I'm probably not going to get the DLC.

A.) It's 1.9 gigs, that's way too rich for my monthly allowance.
B.) I actually like the endings to ME3, I've read worse from better authors. I kind of like the big open-ended ending.

Though I am glad it's not a total rewrite, and it is really an expansion.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Silverfyre

I don't think the main problem people had with the opening was that it was left open ended but rather that all three choices were pretty much the same ending but with different color schemes.



CmdrRenegade

Having only finished the game days before the Extended Cut, I saw why it upset so many people.  There wasn't a lot of context and not a lot of people really knew what happened.  The Extended Cut at least gives more context to what the red, green, and blue endings mean and what actually happens to the galactic population.  This wasn't going to make everyone happy, but Bioware at least seems to recognize the lack of closure that was originally there. 
"Every creative act is open war against The Way It Is."-Tycho Brahe of Penny Arcade

I'm CmdrRenegade and these are my Ons and Offs and Apologies and Abcenses on Elliquiy.


SinXAzgard21

Quote from: Inkidu on June 27, 2012, 09:41:27 PM
I'm probably not going to get the DLC.

A.) It's 1.9 gigs, that's way too rich for my monthly allowance.
B.) I actually like the endings to ME3, I've read worse from better authors. I kind of like the big open-ended ending.

Though I am glad it's not a total rewrite, and it is really an expansion.

I have never understood this allowance of Gb at all.  I've never had it and I've used 600 gb in a month.
If you know me personally, you know how to contact me.

Chris Brady

Quote from: SinXAzgard21 on June 28, 2012, 01:08:22 AM
I have never understood this allowance of Gb at all.  I've never had it and I've used 600 gb in a month.
All other non-American countries have caps.

It's because we're literally running out of radio waves to transmit all this data.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Laughing Hyena

Quote from: Inkidu on June 27, 2012, 09:41:27 PM
I'm probably not going to get the DLC.

A.) It's 1.9 gigs, that's way too rich for my monthly allowance.
B.) I actually like the endings to ME3, I've read worse from better authors. I kind of like the big open-ended ending.

Though I am glad it's not a total rewrite, and it is really an expansion.

Its free. But the second reason is fine.

Chris Brady

Quote from: Laughing Hyena on June 28, 2012, 02:44:55 AM
Its free. But the second reason is fine.

He's talking Bandwidth.  He, like I do, likely has a cap on how much he can download a month.  1.9 in a single shot is in reality 3.8, because sending information back to the server is counted as part of the bandwidth.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Liayra

The extended cut is still bad writing, they fixed a number of small annoyances but it's still bad. I laughed when...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
... the Normandy picks up your teammates while Harby is shooting everything, and then Shepard says goodbye to the love interest while Harby is there cutely waiting like "hullo! *wavewavewavewavebouncebouncewave* I'm here! Are you done yet? I have to pew pew you!"

Chris Brady

Quote from: Liayra on June 28, 2012, 04:27:44 AM
The extended cut is still bad writing, they fixed a number of small annoyances but it's still bad. I laughed when...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
... the Normandy picks up your teammates while Harby is shooting everything, and then Shepard says goodbye to the love interest while Harby is there cutely waiting like "hullo! *wavewavewavewavebouncebouncewave* I'm here! Are you done yet? I have to pew pew you!"

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Well, from what I hear, they detail enough to make it so that the rest of the galaxy ISN'T blown up.  Originally, the average viewer got the impression that once the Mass Relays exploded, that was it, no more life in the Galaxy, now, there is life, it's just...  Harder to reach.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Inkidu

Quote from: SinXAzgard21 on June 28, 2012, 01:08:22 AM
I have never understood this allowance of Gb at all.  I've never had it and I've used 600 gb in a month.
This is also to answer Laughing Hyena.

When you live where you can't pay people to run hard-lines to your house you have to use basically a personal hotspot which have limits. Enjoy the limitless internet while it lasts. In about ten years the spectrum crunch will make it impossible to get an unlimited, unthrottled service. We're basically running out of airspace to transmit data.

Anyway, I know it's free, but when you factor in the megabyte cost to keep the connection open for about the hour or so it would take with my speed (it's fast just limited) to download basically two gigs of stuff. That might end up being nearly three gigs of data. That's a little over a fifth that has to last a whole month with three people using it.

Why I hate the internet-everything craze. Not everyone (even here in the US) has the the internet to support all the trends going around.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Chris Brady

Off topic, but internet based.  Actually we DO have a decent reserve of bandwidth, but they're owned by the big TV companies, ABC, NBC and the like.  Some of you might remember the old TVs with the 'rabbit ear' antenna?  Well those were using the same bandwidth as the internet is now.  But seeing as no TVs use antennas anymore, the big companies are sitting on them so that when crunch time comes, they will be the only ones with the oil fields that the entire world will beg them to use.

And house hard wiring isn't going to help.  Whenever I visit E on my home computer, which is not wireless, the moment my signal hits a booster (as radio waves degrade over distances), it's beamed to another antenna, which might be in say... New York, or California, or wherever then it's bounced around a few more places until it talks to the E servers, then is sent back to my rig, which is then displayed on my shiny new 23" 1080p monitor ( ;D ) for me to see.  We would need to tear down those signal towers, and the use the cables that rail companies put up (which they actually use a bare minimum of, and rent to the major cable internet companies (yeah, that cellphone?  A lot of your bill is dictated by the various railway companies)) years ago, in the 80s.

It's a mess, and one which sadly has no answer yet.
My O&Os Peruse at your doom.

So I make a A&A thread but do I put it here?  No.  Of course not.

Also, I now come with Kung-Fu Blog action.  Here:  Where I talk about comics and all sorts of gaming

Liayra

I have been reading on the subliminal messages that the endings supposedly carry, I don't know what to think to be honest so, I'm just sharing a post that I found from someone.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Control = everyone is better off if one supreme AI god rules everything in the effort to provide security to the populace. EX: Cold war russia, ancient egyptian pharoahs.

Synthesis = in order to put aside our differences and evolve to a higher level of existence we must become the master race of synthetic and organic hybrids. EX: 1935-1940′s germany

Destroy – in order to protect the greater good we much commit genocide of sentient species. EX: African tribe wars of modern day, plus 1935-1940′s germany.

Refusal = if you fight for freedom to decide your own fate and unity of diverse peoples you will be extinguished and destroyed. Shepards words of i’d rather die free than live like a slave kinda points at that. Our story was a story of beating the odds no matter how difficult they were, but bioware says that the odds are too great so everyone who fights to be free must die.

I find it very interesting that so few people have actually noticed the hidden meanings in biowares endings and what bothers me more is the amount of people in support of synthesis and control. Eh oh well we’ll soon be living control and synthesis soon enough.