Gay Catholics, what's wrong with those people anyway?

[Tamhansen]

Let me start off by saying i have nothing against gays, religious people, or even religious gay people.

My qualm is with people who are gay, and maintain a gay lifestyle, yet cause a public row to be allowed to be part of the catholic church, the most anti gay religion in the world. It's kind of like a group of African Americans getting up in arms for not being let into the Klan.

Now my point is that gays should be allowed their lifestyle, and their sexual preferences, but that people fighting to be part of a group that condemns them and their lifestyle should be institutionalised.

[Beguile's Mistress]

The ministry of the Catholic Church does not condone the practice of a homosexual lifestyle but it does not condemn homosexuals. 

Putting that aside, however, we need to recognize the fact that most organizations change from within.  The Church has been in existence for 2000 years and will continue strong for a long time to come and many find peace and joy and comfort in its teachings.  Homosexuals who wish to follow the teachings of the Church and bring it into more current thinking are needed and the courage of those who work for that change is to be applauded not scoffed at. 

Suggesting that anyone has a mental disability because of their beliefs is a harsh attitude to take even in this case.

[Tamhansen]

Actually. Though many clergymen do not condemn homosexuality, believing the bible states one should love all of mankind, Catholic dogma states that though homosexual feelings are not a sin, homosexual acts are. My statement was about practicing homosexuals, and thus sinners who should be put to death according to church law.

As for my harsh statement about the mental condition, I am putting my statement forward sharply to make a more polarized debate.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Actually. Though many clergymen do not condemn homosexuality, believing the bible states one should love all of mankind, Catholic dogma states that though homosexual feelings are not a sin, homosexual acts are. My statement was about practicing homosexuals, and thus sinners who should be put to death according to church law.

Annotated source information to support this statement would be helpful.

As for my harsh statement about the mental condition, I am putting my statement forward sharply to make a more polarized debate.

Here again, the published opinions of credible members of the medical community diagnosing these individuals as being mentally challenged would support your argument.

[gaggedLouise]

Actually. Though many clergymen do not condemn homosexuality, believing the bible states one should love all of mankind, Catholic dogma states that though homosexual feelings are not a sin, homosexual acts are. My statement was about practicing homosexuals, and thus sinners who should be put to death according to church law.

Is it the statutes of the Law of Moses you are referring to here, or some medieval canons building on it? It's a long time since those sources ceased being used as actual enforced law in their literal sense.

I can see where you're coming from, but your argument is like saying everyone who claims to be a believing Jew must be an ultra-orthodox and shut his family off from modern society, or he/she can't be a real Jew.

Even if antipathy to homosexual practices is an entrenched position in some strata of the Roman Catholic community, that's more of a reflection of the surrounding society and its history. If you'd made a gallup among Christians - at least literate Christians - two hundred years ago, you would have found that many of them - of those who answered - supported black slavery and were very much against what we know as democracy. But that's changed over time: those persuasions were more to do with ingrained social attitudes than with religious dogma, and Christians have played a real, active role in shaping democracy and in many popular movements of liberation: the Civil Rights movement in the US, Solidarity in Communist Poland and the moral and human support it received from the Catholic church, Christian movements working for redressing of global economic balance, debt clearing and humanitarian and political aid, to name just a few.

Also, many Catholics don't obey all that the Vatican is saying.

[Trieste]

Okay.

You are not speaking in an educated fashion about the Catholic Church. What I would suggest you do is find a RCC near you and discuss this with one of their clergy. Many RCC clergymen are in fact very well-educated in the RCC's texts, policies, and canon. Once you have educated yourself, PM me to reopen this debate.

The fact that you are approaching this from a position of ignorance is unacceptable, especially for the sake of the integrity of the debate. It is not the responsibility of Elliquiy members of the RCC to educate you, especially when you have clearly not educated yourself. Rectify this.

Thank you.