American Football Players Protesting

[Sara Nilsson]

What I find interesting is, dog fighting, spousal abuse, driving under influence, murder, and wasn't one convicted of rape.. Not a peep from folks. Yeah no those are all fine.

What someone is peacefully protesting? RABBLE RABBLE BOYCOTT!

Also the whole.. disrespecting the flag. Said by people who are likely sitting at home not standing up, wearing clothes made to look like a flag, while the flag is held out in a way that is also against the rules for how the American flag is to be presented.

American flag thong? No that is patriotic and sexy. Really? A girl having to literally dig the flag out of her ass is ok but a black man kneeling is disrespectful?

And as honestly every single veteran I know have said, but I am not claiming to speak for veterans just what they told me. Nah they can kneel, we fought for their rite to do so. We didn't fight for forced patriotism. And this from one navy sailor, one marine (desert storm) and one colonel (or how it is spelled) who served two tours in Afghanistan. I think by now they are tired of me asking them ^^

As a Swede living in America I honestly don't understand this flag fetish. We don't worship the Swedish flag back home, and here.. I see it worshiped and at the same time treated so poorly. Walk around the block and many of the flags are in TERRIBLE state, torn, faded. One guy painted the flag on his fence, yeah looks nice, cept.. it is wrong. The red and white are reversed.

So all that rambling to say, I think they are perfectly in their rights to do so. Their boss hasn't said "no you can't do it" in fact many owners have joined in now. So, as long as the boss is ok with it.. why not. I hear many say.. if I did that at my job.. well their boss has said it is ok. Just because your boss doesn't like it doesn't mean all bosses.. etc.

[Oniya]

and one colonel (or how it is spelled)

Got it right.  (Dad was a lieutenant colonel, so I had to learn both words.)

[Sara Nilsson]

Thanks, that word always confuse me. It doesn't sound like it is spelled!

[la dame en noir]

"we never needed racism in this country"

America was founded on native genocide and african slavery. Then segregation.

Don't try it lol

[la dame en noir]

Yes, as a disabled veteran, I would personally like to be left out of this.

Do I like the action? Not really. Do I respect their right to do so? Absolutely. I’d rather have a man dissent in a peaceful manner than a thug, on either side of the political spectrum, go to a political event with the planned intent to do violence. I would join Kaepernick on the fifty yard line long before I endorse ANTIFA, the KKK or the more radical elements of BLM.
Might need him to give me a hand up afterwards. :)

I’m disappointed in the presidents words, he is our leader, not just the MAGA voters who he runs to rallies to boost his ego but all of us. Of the six presidents I’ve been able to vote for, he’s is the only one that has continually divisive. I hear things like how these men are millionaires and that means that they don’t suffer for the color of their skin or that they should use that money to do something about the issue. Just because they are protesting at lunch counters or bus seating doesn’t mean their issues don’t happen.

I discount most folks that say that for one simple reason, they are the same people who disdain other millionaires who speak up in the media on other events. ‘He’s not a politician/law enforcement officer/doctors/whatever, so he doesn’t understand’.

I’ve encountered racism personall, but for me it’s the exception not the rule. I’m white, that means unless I’m in specific parts if the country or overseas I have to go looking for it. I’ve spent more time seeing folks fuck with my airmen, petty officers and even a chief, all of color, than I have encountered it on me. I backed my guys in the first two categories and call the Officer of the Watch and backed my Chief in the latter.

When a guy laying on a bench wearing a leatherman in ripped up jeans, boots, and a cry for dawn shirt gets hassled less than the guy in slacks and a polo shirt their is something wrong. So, any athlete wants to kneel during the anthem to get a conversation started on how we can fix it, I’ll be happy to let them.  I would love to ask Colin a lot of things, and tell him that this vet is okay with his actions

Don’t tell me that this is about disrespecting me and mine, this is about something else. Leave us out of that bull shit.

Additionally: patriotism isn’t one blind set of actions, it’s standing up to something that isn’t right and saying ‘No, you move’ because it is wrong. These men are kneeling because the man who should be bring both sides to the table and hashing this out is too busy distracting us from his laziness.

I wish moer people would realize there are radicals in BLM and not the entire organization that is like these radicals. Thank you for using that in regards to BLM - because I am a BLM supporter.



At work, a white co-worker of mine(who has made it known that he is very conservative) has been harassing me up and down every since he has found out

1. I would kneel for the national anthem
2. I am from California.

Why is this an issue? Well, because of a few things. He thinks that by default Californians are stupid, that we aren't allowed to carry guns, that we wouldn't know how to carry guns, etc etc(I'm not sure why he so fucking obsessed with guns). When I told him he was incredibly ignorant, he told me "I'm not ignorant, I'm just telling the truth." He has insulted my intelligence on more than one occasion and has done so in front of customers. I have noticed that he likes to harass the other black women working at the store, but wouldn't dare do it to the black men working there.

As for the national anthem - I was singing it because I'm just random and strange that way and he made a dumbass remark saying "Do you kneel too? Just like those idiots?" I turned and looked at that asshole and said "It depends on how fucking angry I am." and walked away.

There is so much hostile shit thrown at me on a daily since moving to the south and so many trump supporters and bigoted assholes are bold now - but they don't seem to understand that we are not our grandparents and we will fight back.

Recently, a black man stepped in front of a protester(at Charlottesville) as an ANTIFA aggressor attacked and beat the shit out of this white supremacist for no reason. Witht he interview, this man couldn't believe that this black man saved his life and sat there reading his racist tweets and realized how fucking ridiculous he sounded.

AND Another video I saw - BLM protestors went to a Trump rally and instead of aggression, they were invited on stage to speak and at the end - it was surprising. The Trump supporters realized they had more in common with the BLM supporters than they knew. BLM does not mean ONLY BLACK PEOPLE. It rasises awareness towards the aggression towards black people in particular and that we want justice. That we want bad and corrupt cops out of the system. We are not anti-cop - we never have been. This organization even protests when white children, men, women and other groups of people are wrongly executed and targeted.

Yet, no one seems to fucking get that?

(excuse my language, I curse a lot when I'm passionate)

So, as Americans, and for all of this kneeling - we can do whatever the hell we want - its not hurting ANYONE. So many conservatives and Trump supporters boast and yell about their freedom of speech - they have tongue to get mad when NFL players use their American, human right to not stand for the national anthem.

Get over it.

Also, ANTFIA is insane!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hRM2NmZtR0

[Callie Del Noire]

Dame, there are radical elements in my moms church choir, it’s a matter of degree.

Is there legitimate cause in their actions, most often.. yes. I do wish that they would be less aggressive or pick better examples than some they tried to push as they have. However, I have worked with a lot of black men in the service that have spoken of how tired they are of something’s that happen to them.

[HannibalBarca]

A forum like this is supposed to give people the chance to air their own perspectives, so other people can see them.  Sometimes we have to wade through each others' anger at issues to get at the core of it.  Honestly, if someone is angry about something, that means we should pay more attention to what they're saying, and try to get to the core of it.

I can call myself a democratic socialist.  Pretty far left as far as most American politics would consider it, but barely left of center for Europeans.  I've never belonged to any political party.  I agree with George Washington's considerations in his farewell address--'beware the spirit of party'.  It segregates people into clans, rather than brings them together.  The very next election threw John Adams of the Federalists against one of his best friends, Thomas Jefferson of the Democratic-Republicans.  The election after that was even worse, and the representatives of the same two candidates slung mud at the other side incessantly.  Unfortunately, Adams and Jefferson remained enemies for almost 30 years after that.

And yet at the same time I call myself a democratic socialist, I reject communism.  I own guns.  I'm a teacher who has seen the horrible effects of generational welfare on families.  I'm more than a label.  It might be convenient to call me a liberal or progressive, but out of the thousands of opinions I have on a multitude of subjects, I'm sure I have more than a few that would be considered conservative.  It's the nature of the beast called humanity.

I'm a proponent of a well-rounded education.  I've found in my own quest to educate myself that, the more we know, the more likely it is that we will be understanding and empathetic towards other people who have experiences different than us.  I don't know what it's like for other people to live their lives, and I don't pretend to know.  I'm fortunate to have a family that has varying beliefs and backgrounds, and friends and acquaintances that are likewise.  I have seven service members in my family.  I also have six teachers, including myself.  Three law enforcement officers, two EMTs, a nurse, a firefighter, and a correctional officer.  There is a long history of public service on both sides of my family.  Representing our country and helping others is a tradition.

My father served twenty years in the Air Force, came near death three times in Vietnam, and is very conservative.  But he's made it very clear to me on multiple occasions that he fought so that people could disagree with him on a subject as extreme to him as flag burning.  He asked me yesterday on the phone if I'd kneel at a football game.  I told him, because of my own outlook on the flag, that I wouldn't--but I'd put my hand on the shoulder of someone who did, or link arms with them, in a show of solidarity.

What is my outlook on the flag?  That it's a symbol of not just one segment of our nation, but everyone in the nation; the good and the bad.  As far as I'm concerned, we have to take it all together.  My long love of history has shown me that this nation has never been perfect, but is supposed to be improved, and continues to be improved, often in fits and starts.  Sometimes that means workers protesting for union rights being beaten up by hired goons.  Sometimes that means women being sent to jail for protesting their lack of the right to vote.  Sometimes that means African-Americans fleeing the country because the Supreme Court said they weren't citizens.  Right now, things are not all right for everyone in this country.  People kneeling in protest over it is a fucking protected right in the Constitution.  If goddamn money is considered free speech by the Supreme Court, then kneeling down during the National Anthem at a sporting event goddamn well is.

And yeah, every organization or group in this country has good and bad apples.  Anyone who tries to put their own pet group up on a pedestal is deluding themselves.  Sure, I can feel my own dander come up when I hear someone complain about teachers and their long-ass summer vacations and their ridiculous benefits and retirement packages, and that stupid Common Core shit...but I have to remember that there are shitty teachers too.  I've worked next to some of them.  But we're not all shitty.  Neither are all cops.  Or all lawyers.  Or BLM.  Or the Republican Party.  Or the Democrats, either.  You think that, after so many millennia of social systems amongst humanity, we'd get some of these basic ideas straight.  But that damned education thing still isn't a complete or even valued thing by every individual, or society.

I think a really, really good concept to put into practice, with most social conflicts, is this: don't take them personally.  It isn't about you.  It's about us.

[Lustful Bride]

Some wise words.

[Regina Minx]

This is an op-ed by Eric Reid, Colin Kaepernick’s 49ers teammate. I r commend the whole thing, but I wanted to quote these two paragraphs …

After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

It’s all worth reading though.

[Deamonbane]

Had to ask.. my bs, sarcasm detection meters are blown and my patience and bottle of double cask are in low supply

No worries, and I get that.

[Serephino]

The way I see it is this.  These are American citizens who are upset with the way things are in this country.  They are doing this to make a statement.  They are not destroying property, or harming anyone.  It is a peaceful protest, which is their right.  I am not a blind idiot, and I can see for myself that there is a race problem in this country.  I may not understand the full extent of it because I'm white and haven't personally experienced it, but that does not mean I can't read news stories and be pissed on their behalf.

In high school I did something similar myself.  All the way up to 10th grade the pledge of allegiance was said every morning in homeroom.  My homeroom teacher was a Vietnam Vet and told us the first day that we didn't have to say the pledge, but we better stand up and be quiet while everyone else does.  At that point I was starting  to feel like the whole thing was... I can't quite describe my feelings.  I didn't go as far as not standing, but I was not in Nazi Germany, so I refused to say it.  To this day, doesn't matter the setting, I won't say it.  I don't think I'm being disrespectful.  Having to pledge allegiance just feels wrong to me.  I won't and you can't make me.

[Lustful Bride]

In high school I did something similar myself.  All the way up to 10th grade the pledge of allegiance was said every morning in homeroom.  My homeroom teacher was a Vietnam Vet and told us the first day that we didn't have to say the pledge, but we better stand up and be quiet while everyone else does.  At that point I was starting  to feel like the whole thing was... I can't quite describe my feelings.  I didn't go as far as not standing, but I was not in Nazi Germany, so I refused to say it.  To this day, doesn't matter the setting, I won't say it.  I don't think I'm being disrespectful.  Having to pledge allegiance just feels wrong to me.  I won't and you can't make me.

I had a similar teacher. We didn't have to say the pledge of we didn't want to. But standing and being silent was required. Especially the moment of silence. As I was always taught it was a moment to honor the fallen and to honor all of those who ever suffered and struggled for freedom, justice, equal rights.

I respect your right to not say the pledge. We are all entitled to our opinions. So long as we are respectful.

[Lustful Bride]

Steven Segal throws his own lot in as well, calling the protests disgusting.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/steven-seagal-bashes-%e2%80%98disgusting%e2%80%99-nfl-protests-defends-putin-%e2%80%93-with-kremlin-in-background-video/ar-AAswkBr?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

I wonder if he thinks it will make him relevant again?

[salope]

The true question is:
NFL is about entertainment - where you can relax - release your mind - eat your chickenwings - and just think about standing for your prefered team.
Is that the right place to do politics?

My relax times are when i am in a spa - and i dont want the workers there protesting about any politics topic. That would destroy the relaxing for me and all the others who come there...

[Deamonbane]

One might argue that Sports have always been a platform for politics. Playing the national anthem at the beginning of the game, having the jets soaring over the stadium at the Superbowl, etc. They are well within their rights to make a peaceful protest.

One might also argue that people that are peacefully protesting on the street are closing off roads and making it inconvenient for working people to get to and from their jobs, and therefore is that really the right place to do politics? In which case, I ask you this: What do you think is the right place to do politics?

[salope]

One might argue that Sports have always been a platform for politics. Playing the national anthem at the beginning of the game, having the jets soaring over the stadium at the Superbowl, etc. They are well within their rights to make a peaceful protest.

One might also argue that people that are peacefully protesting on the street are closing off roads and making it inconvenient for working people to get to and from their jobs, and therefore is that really the right place to do politics? In which case, I ask you this: What do you think is the right place to do politics?

Playing the national anthem at the beginning of a NFL game, having the jets soaring over the stadium at the Superbowl, etc for my opinion isnt politics but just business at usual (part of the show) no matter of the actual politics.

I would also argue there is a difference between a protest on the street and protesting at an event what just should be a good show for the ppl to watch.

And the right place is peaceful protest at your spare times - NFL players are paid entertainer who shall be good at their sports and giving the ppl who watch em (and pay for it or letting a TV station pay for it) a good show. Offending over 50% of the viewers at the stadium and in front of the TV just shouldnt be part of it.

PS - as i am not american i am neither pro nor against Trump. But as long we dont have a better system then democracy we all should respect the result of an election and tolerate the elected government - no matter if you personally like it or not.
Tolerate is based on the latin word "tolerare" what means "undergo, bear, incur - so to tolerate doesnt mean you are happy with it.

[Deamonbane]

The result of the election was never in question. Well, it was, but I'm not one given over to conspiracy theories. What the players were protesting were two things: A. The racial inequality issue in the US, as stated by Colin Kaepernick, and B. The fact that the President openly pressured the NFL team owners to fire their employees for expressing their views on that, which is illegal and to my mind, should be protested. In all fairness, most of the NFL players' protest was against being bullied by the man, but I digress.

Also, the street is a public place meant for all tax-paying citizens to be on, whether they are protesting or not.

And... yeah, playing the national anthem before the games is a rather common form of patriotic incentive, and the Jets flying over the Superbowl is sponsored by the Air Force, not unlike the film Top Gun. There are hundreds (literally) of other examples of Sports being used as a way to push for one political agenda or another, if you'd care to research for yourself. It's not a new thing.

In the end, my thought is that enforced patriotism, even if or especially if enforced by the threat of taking away your livelihood, amounts to fascism, and I think that it's worth it to protest that on any platform. As for the people that got offended, well, that's the point of social activism: To make people uncomfortable with the status quo. Those folks will just have to tolerate that like the rest have to tolerate a President that endorses and is endorsed by the KKK and Neo-Nazis. So long as it is peaceful and lawful (Which they were) have at it.

By the way, I'm not American either, but I am living in Europe with European relatives who have some very real scars from the last time that Nazis were in power. So my views may be a bit biased.

[Regina Minx]

Yeah, no. The NFL is, and always has been, political. Sports has always been political.

History lesson: Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 specifically grants the NFL exemption from antitrust laws because of the league lobbying Congress. The NFL exists as a government-sanction monopoly without rivals or competition.

And the league has also exercised political power. Fantasy football is legal because the NFL again lobbied Congress to exempt fantasy football from laws that would have otherwise banned or regulated online gambling. The NFL has benefitted from $7 billion dollars in tax subsidies. The NFL and its teams pit city against city when they need to build a new stadium, making the citizens pay for the privilege of letting that team play there, often to the detriment of the local economy and without the business revenues promised.  The NFL has also used its influence to steer money away from federal government-sponsored studies into head trauma and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), which is a brain disease that a lot of pro football players seem to get.

The NFL's position about playing the national anthem before games is a political decision. The view of patriotism that says wrapping yourself in the flag and that there is only one correct way to behave during a performance of a song is political. The unquestioned love of military and military symbolism is political. The millions of dollars taken by the NFL to promote the Pentagon's causes and post recruitment posters for the armed forces is political.

These players have not introduced politics into football. They're introducing THEIR politics into football. And if you're going to tolerate every single thing I mentioned above without saying a word, then this is just another aspect of that.  You need to tolerate it. Tolerate is based on the latin word "tolerare" what means "undergo, bear, incur - so to tolerate doesn't mean you are happy with it.

[salope]

By the way, I'm not American either, but I am living in Europe with European relatives who have some very real scars from the last time that Nazis were in power. So my views may be a bit biased.

ok i am out - bringing nazi stuff into that topic whats just about if its good when NFL players shall protest during their workshift or not is way too heavy (and in my opinion a punch in the face for everyone who really suffered that time) and killing every conversation.

[Deamonbane]

ok i am out - bringing nazi stuff into that topic whats just about if its good when NFL players shall protest during their workshift or not is way too heavy (and in my opinion a punch in the face for everyone who really suffered that time) and killing every conversation.

Sorry if it made you feel 'uncomfortable'. You might want to hear the opinion of the people that you are claiming offense for, before you walk away from a conversation because it got too heavy.

[Deamonbane]

I apologize for what I said, and how I said it. I'll be stepping away from these threads now.