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Author Topic: Ramblings: Monogamy?  (Read 193 times)

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Offline Kurzyk

Ramblings: Monogamy?
« on: July 29, 2010, 07:51:17 PM »
Found an interesting article that I wanted to share. It discusses Monogamy and whether it's natural for homo sapiens.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/27/ryan.promiscuity.normal/index.html?hpt=C2

I've always been fascinated with this topic. At the moment I would say I'm monogamous. I like the idea of a single love that can be cultivated and grown into old age, and dying together. I'm not particularly religious, although I have my spiritual moments, and I do entertain the idea that choosing one person and sticking to them has a "strength through challenge" quality.

And yet...

I can't help this feeling that somehow I'm fighting the pull... that there are and will always be components to my sexuality that are not satisfied, or even forced to fit into a "box" of what society has deemed appropriate. I'm fully aware of the U.S.'s puritanical upbringing and the stranglehold religion has on our perception of life. I often wonder whether the male's ability to produce so many millions of sperm is nature's way of saying we are meant for more than one mate.

The other thought that I keep tucked away and only peek at when I'm feeling adventurous, is what if the monogamy drive stems from inadequacy, insecurity or just plain fear? If I was truly confident in myself, my feelings and my sexuality, would I want only one partner? There would be no holding on to them, no unsurity of what they did, or whether they would leave. There would be no jealousy, or competition with other men that would look at my hot partner as we walked by. In a relationship, where confidence and love would be truly strong, (as opposed to strong on the surface masking deeper feelings and issues,) would we only have one partner?

Sure we could always choose it, but how much choice do we have over our biological make-up? Are we wired to be polygamous and deny those feelings for social conditioning?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 08:02:37 PM by Kurzyk »

Offline Trieste

Re: Ramblings: Monogamy?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 08:26:23 PM »
Emotional monogamy is a different beast from sexual monogamy. They have two different motivators, and two different places in our lives.

I will say up front that I am not monogamous, and have never been monogamous. I have chafed under the thumb of previous lovers who swore they would "try" monogamy for my sake, but who then turned around and hit me with the jealousy-hammer as soon as we were in a relationship. I loathe jealousy itself quite a lot. It has no place in a loving relationship whether you're monogamous, poly, or anywhere in between.

Having expressed my bias, I can say that sexual monogamy makes little sense evolutionarily. It makes little sense for women as well as men; what if the 'one man' she chose to nurture her and her babies turns out to be infertile? What if he runs away? Better to have sex with many males and have them all stick around because they all believe it could be their kid you've dropped. I believe the evolutionary reasons for men to be non-monogamous have been well-explored and I probably don't need to go into them.

However, we've certainly broken sensible evolutionary logic before, and it's possible we have broken them again. However, as the article mentioned, the prevalence of egalitarianism in pre-agrarian societies makes that unlikely. Just like we study fossils to get a sense of our physical evolution, a lot can be learned about cultural evolution from societies that have not 'progressed' as much.

Emotional monogamy is very different. We are capable of having sex without feeling, and vice versa. Why would we need to make multiple deeply emotional connections with others? If you look at evolution it makes sense: the more numerous your family is, the better-able they are to care for you during illness or infirmary or old age. This makes evolutionary sense, even to the point of explaining lesbian or gay relationships. I think it also comes down to our capacity to love. It is finite, but it is not as limited as we are led to believe. If people can have six or eight or twelve siblings, about all of whom they care deeply, why can we not have just as many lovers? Why can't three lovers have an enduring, everlasting love such as the one you describe? It's possibly a matter of passion. "We only have so much passion", I've been told. But we don't feel passion for one person all the time. We feel other emotions: anger, hurt, disappointment. We feel those pretty deeply when it involves our siblings or parents or close friends, too. It seems, to me, to be a matter of cultivation. You're used to the idea of being angry with more than one person at once, so the idea doesn't seem strange to you. You don't run into a barrier. If you were also used to loving, passionately and fully, more than one person at once, I'm positive that you would find yourself barrier-free in that, also.

Kurz, if you haven't yet read The Ethical Slut, I think you would find it enlightening. This is the version I have, though this one comes up first on Amazon. I'm honestly not sure if the second one is a reprint, an update, an expansion or what.

Either way, that's my take.

Online Will

Re: Ramblings: Monogamy?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 10:05:50 PM »
That is a pretty interesting article, for sure.  The issue I have with it pops up early though; it lays out the rather tired argument that monogamy is hard, therefore it must not be normal.  It goes on to imply that any lack of passion or interest in a relationship is due only to our animal past.

::)

You only get from a relationship what you put into it.  Blaming a loss of freshness on one's ape genes is a bit of a cop out.  After all, any long-term relationship is going to be hard, whether you have one or a dozen (and exponentially more so with the dozen).  That doesn't mean you should immediately shelve any relationship as soon as you hit a rough patch and chalk it up to evolution. :P

The anthropological angle is a much more solid base to build an argument on.  I would say that there is a difference between humans and the other varieties of apes that complicates things, though; we have very complex emotions.  We can find fulfillment by having someone that knows us and accepts us on a very deep level.  I'm not sure a bonobo can experience that.

I don't completely disagree with the general point of the article.  Multiple sex partners does seem to be the most logical state for humans.  I agree with that totally; I would be a hypocrite if I didn't.  I just think that love has a place in there somewhere as well, and that we shouldn't all just toss the idea of love and relationships out the window as somehow "false" or "too hard."  As the author said at the close of the article, we can choose how we live our lives, and we can certainly choose to forgo our emotional advantage in favor of sport fucking.  But I think it would be a shame.

Online Cecilia

Re: Ramblings: Monogamy?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 11:14:58 AM »
I'm currently reading "Sex at Dawn" and finding it rather interesting and amusing.  "Amusing" because the authors certainly are witty and use fun turns of phrase and numerous entertaining examples.  "Interesting" because there's a lot to think about.  They call upon a number of examples that show that a coupled marriage is not necessarily part of a natural human condition but part of our societal norms.  It debunks the idea that marriage between two people is the "Way Things Should Be" and goes a long way to make it easier to understand why so many of us have sexual needs that go beyond the marital bed.  That said, I don't think the book's intentions are to send people into wild orgy filled lifestyles so much as to explain those urges and help those who don't relate to monogamy understand that monogamy is more a social construct than a  genetic one.   

Offline DaddyCool

Re: Ramblings: Monogamy?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 08:52:54 AM »
I personally take the Roissysphere/PUA society's view - women are hypergamous - they want to have the kid with the sexiest genes possible, and if they can get a provider to give them support and raise those kids, all the better. Men want to have sex with as many of the hottest women that they can. This all comes back down to how much each gender invests in their kids(men have sex, women get to spend 5 years pregnant/child raising)

Marriage exists because some people realised that having a bunch of big, alpha male leaders monopolise access to women (check out Ismoulay the Bloodthirsty, or the various tribal kings who stated that all women in the tribe were their property) wasn't really that good for society. Monogamy is really a loss for women more than men, as most women would rather have a one tenth share of a great guy than exclusive possession of a loser. It does mean, however, that when a guy works his butt off to become a provider or producer for society, he can get enough status that women will actually want to sleep with him and consider marrying him. Some people, like In Mala Fide consider this to be how western society came to sit pretty much on top of the world compared to places like Africa.

These ideas should be pretty familiar to anyone reading an evo psych book.